AI bug - fielding positions

[Eckstein 4 Prez]

Team A has:

Player A - rated 61 at 2B, 84 at 3B, IF arm 95 - default position is 3B
Player B - rated 73 at 2B, 53 at 3B, IF arm 95 - default position is 2B
Player C - rated 65 at LF, 70 at CF, OF arm of 56 - default is CF
Player D - rated 65 at LF, 41 at CF, OF arm of 44 - default is LF

It has all four of these guys in the starting lineup, with A at 2B, B at 3B, C at LF and D at CF. This is a conversion from OOTP5, which used to recognize the correct position.

I mean, I can suspend disbelief for the occasional Jeter/ARod issue, but this seems to happen repeatedly. Can someone take a look at this for the next patch? Thanks.

[Eckstein 4 Prez]

More on this bug:

I think the AI is calculating positions in order, from 1 through 9 or something like that.

I have two players on one team. One is a superstar SS - rated 92 at that position. He's also rated about 60 at 2B and is one of the team's best hitters - and is the only guy on the ML roster with a rating at SS. The other is a slick-fielding 2B - rated 90 - but not much of a hitter. He's the only guy who is rated at 2B.

The AI puts the SS at 2B and the 2B at SS - every time. When I change it, the AI changes it back.

What I think the game is doing is deciding on the best 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, etc., in that order. Since my SS is rated at 2B and plays pretty well there and is a much better hitter than the 2B, the game thinks he's the best 2B (which, of course, he is). Then, when they get to the point of needing a SS, the AI goes, "Hey! We don't have any shortstops on this team! I'd better just put this slick-fielding 2B there."

This obviously is an untenable approach, since if, for example, Willie Mays was rated a 100 in CF and a 15 at 1B, he'd probably be made the starting 1B and his defensive abilities would be wasted. At the very least, if the AI is going to take such an approach, it should go down the defensive spectrum.

If someone official could reply that this is a known issue so that I know it's being worked on, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

[Eckstein 4 Prez]

Originally posted by Eckstein 4 Prez
At the very least, if the AI is going to take such an approach, it should go down the defensive spectrum.

On second thought, this won't work either. It could create the same problem, but with the unrated player playing 2B instead of SS.

Basically, OOTP5 had this problem with AI logic:

LF Klutzy McLoser (D at LF, terrible hitter)
CF Ima Hallafamer (A at CF, great hitter)
CF Blandy McAverage (C at both LF and CF, decent hitter)

A team in OOTP with these three players would generally start McLoser and Hallafamer, and leave McAverage on the bench. V6 seems to have corrected this problem, and substituted it with this one:

CF Ima Hallafamer (A at CF, C at LF, great hitter) (only CF on team)
LF Blandy McAverage (C at LF, E at CF, decent hitter)
LF Klutzy McLoser (D at LF, bad hitter)

A team in OOTP6 with these three players will probably start Hallafamer in LF, since he's the best LF. Then, since he's the only CF the team has, they will put the E rated McAverage in CF. Thus, both Hallafamer and McAverage get to play, but out of position.

Personally, I preferred the V5 error to the new one, but is it possible to do it this way:

Have the AI check Hallafamer and see how many positions he's the best player for. Then, compare the two lineups, and since which is better overall.

That's about the best quick fix I can think of.

[Eckstein 4 Prez]

Bump.

[darkhorse]

Originally posted by Eckstein 4 Prez
Bump.

You're not really serious about this crusade until you make it a part of your sig.

Be a hound of hell!

[jdew]

I've seen this too.

Player A - primary position RF (rated excellent), but can also play a little CF (rated terrible), great hitter
Player B - primary position CF (rated excellent), but can play a little RF (rated terrible), average hitter.

The AI assigned Player A to CF and Player B to RF and did not change the primary position on the player info.

Also when in HOF, free agents and trades, clicking on a position to show only that position show all players who might possibly play the position, not just those with it as a primary position.

It seems that there is no longer any recognition of the "primary position" when filtering players or when the AI creates the depth charts. This is probably at least a factor in leading to some odd choices for players who have ratings at more than one position.

Another thing I've noticed, which is actually kind of neat, is that the AI transitioned a middle reliever to a starting pitcher (and changed the primary position to starting pitcher). I hadn't seen that in pervious versions.

[Eckstein 4 Prez]

Originally posted by darkhorse
You're not really serious about this crusade until you make it a part of your sig.

True. Or maybe I should just change my user name to "FixDefenseInOOTP6."

Either way, I'm going to keep bumping this until I know it's recognized as an issue that needs fixing in the next patch.

[sixto]

Originally posted by Eckstein 4 Prez
True. Or maybe I should just change my user name to "FixDefenseInOOTP6."

Either way, I'm going to keep bumping this until I know it's recognized as an issue that needs fixing in the next patch.

It does not appear that any issues are currently being recognized. For whatever reason - SI protocol perhaps? - it's all shrouded in mystery now.

Why anyone would not currently be fearful that OOTP's always impressive customer service is about to take, or already has taken, a nosedive, I just don't know.

I guess that sounds ungrateful, but at a time when customers' psyches are fragile with the merge, it seems like a particularly bad time to go on the QT with bugfixes.

[Eckstein 4 Prez]

I worry about the same thing, 6. However, I'm hopeful that we can at least get the defensive system in working order so that the DIPS-based engine isn't totally useless (which is the case currently IMO - if defense doesn't work, then I'd rather see "avoiding hits" than a broken DIPS system).

That way, if our fears about OOTP7 (or whatever it will be called) materialize, there will at least be a working OOTP6 to use. As it stands now, OOTP5 is the last functional version.

[darkhorse]

Originally posted by Eckstein 4 Prez
As it stands now, OOTP5 is the last functional version.

And since I never had any affection for OOTP5, you can understand my dismay at the current state of affairs.

[dougaiton]

Originally posted by Eckstein 4 Prez

That way, if our fears about OOTP7 (or whatever it will be called) materialize, there will at least be a working OOTP6 to use. As it stands now, OOTP5 is the last functional version.

As nobody ever seem to read these, I could say something like 'what a bloody shambles' without fear of rebuke! Not that I would of course!

Ahh, that's over harsh. Its just infuriating that things that did work fine now don't, and it could be a considerable amount of time (considering how much time it must take to program) before we see it fixed!

[darkhorse]

Eckstein, I doubt you will be happy at this news.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...239#post723239

[Markus Heinsohn]

You sure darkhorse? I never saw this in my tests again! Very strange... the AI for setting up the deoth charts was recoded from scratch, and it worked perfectly in my test leagues...

[dodger300]

Yes it is true. I have one team in my league that is using the firstbaseman in center (has no rating there) and the centerfielder at 1st (also no rating). Plus lineup has only 7 players, no RF despite having a RF'er on the bench.

[markprior22]

Is it possible that existing leagues will have a problem and newly created leagues won't? Hope not but just wondering.

[darkhorse]

Originally posted by Markus Heinsohn
You sure darkhorse? I never saw this in my tests again! Very strange... the AI for setting up the deoth charts was recoded from scratch, and it worked perfectly in my test leagues...

Here is the OF after clicking Generate Auto Depth Chart and Generate Auto Lineup. Starting position followed by Name and various OF range factors.

LF Ira Norris LF 83, CF 70, RF 86
CF Kevin Kestner LF 46, CF none, RF 46
RF James Rogers LF 87, CF 64, RF none

Kestner playing CF with no CF rating. Rogers starting in RF with zero RF rating.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Found the problem... grrrrrrrrrrrrr.... OOTP 6.02a will be released in 30 Minutes

[gmo]

Originally posted by Markus Heinsohn
Found the problem... grrrrrrrrrrrrr.... OOTP 6.02a will be released in 30 Minutes

And after I just dl'ed over the phone line. I wanted to test to see if my league with on each team only one position player who was totally averagely rated and just for one position was changed. The SS/2B/3B started at 2B/3B/SS, and the OF mostly went CF played in LF, LF played in CF, but sometimes the LF played RF and the RF played CF.

If this is fixed, I will be so psyched!

[dodger300]

Thanks Markus

[darkhorse]

Originally posted by Markus Heinsohn
Found the problem... grrrrrrrrrrrrr.... OOTP 6.02a will be released in 30 Minutes

Now that is customer service.