Home | Webstore
Latest News: - OOTP 15: Update #6 Released! - OOTP 15 Released! - FHM 2014: Version 1.6.19 Available! - iOOTP Baseball 2014 for iOS Available NOW! - Beyond the Sideline Football Announced! - Title Bout Championship Boxing 2.5 released!

OOTP 15 Offseason Special: 50% Off!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Franchise Hockey Manager > FHM - General Discussions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-02-2013, 12:29 AM   #1 (permalink)
Minors (Single A)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 99
Thanks: 2
Thanked 51x in 31 posts
Toi

I like that line combinations are given minute totals for ES lines and % for special teams as seen here:



I would recommend changing the abbreviation from IT (presumably "ice time") to TOI ("time on ice"), which is the standard abbreviation for the statistic in the NHL, or more accurately for this game tactic situation, TOI/G.

A few of us were also wondering whether or not there's going to be a way to adjust length of individual shifts. It's common for players to play shorter shifts later in the game as they get more fatigued, and I was curious if this would be included.
erikthered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 12:41 AM   #2 (permalink)
Hall Of Famer
 
tcblcommish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,635
Thanks: 215
Thanked 351x in 184 posts
well, I am assuming that it is a percentage seeing as it equals 100 and the IT would be the right thing to use as it would be ICE TIME and not the stat TIME ON ICE. I understand what you are saying tho
tcblcommish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 12:57 AM   #3 (permalink)
Minors (Single A)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 99
Thanks: 2
Thanked 51x in 31 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcblcommish View Post
well, I am assuming that it is a percentage seeing as it equals 100 and the IT would be the right thing to use as it would be ICE TIME and not the stat TIME ON ICE. I understand what you are saying tho
The ES lines total up to 60, which I like because it reflects the familiar stat.

And I know it's not a statistic, and I'm sure it doesn't mean that the players on that line will get exactly that time, but is most likely more of a guide to show which lines are emphasized in the tactics. That's much more straightforward than EHM's vague descriptors regarding line usage, which is definitely a good thing.

Last edited by erikthered; 02-02-2013 at 12:58 AM.
erikthered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 01:01 AM   #4 (permalink)
Minors (Single A)
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 80
Thanks: 135
Thanked 32x in 16 posts
This is definitely a great addition.
I would there's a way to set game totals for your goals as well.
Empach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 01:25 AM   #5 (permalink)
Hall Of Famer
 
tcblcommish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,635
Thanks: 215
Thanked 351x in 184 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by erikthered View Post
The ES lines total up to 60, which I like because it reflects the familiar stat.

And I know it's not a statistic, and I'm sure it doesn't mean that the players on that line will get exactly that time, but is most likely more of a guide to show which lines are emphasized in the tactics. That's much more straightforward than EHM's vague descriptors regarding line usage, which is definitely a good thing.
lol, you are right. I'm not sure now. The ES line say IT but the others say IT%. Now I'm confused.
tcblcommish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 01:37 AM   #6 (permalink)
Minors (Single A)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 99
Thanks: 2
Thanked 51x in 31 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcblcommish View Post
lol, you are right. I'm not sure now. The ES line say IT but the others say IT%. Now I'm confused.
Special teams time is far more variable per game, it's not like you can say, " I want PP1 to play five minutes/game." Even set times like, say, 1:15/pp opportunity wouldn't always work because sometimes PP length isn't a full 2 minutes, so the percentage leaves a good bit of flexibility. On the other hand, you can expect certain players to play approximately certain lengths in any given game. For instance, Crosby should get 20 or so minutes/game.
erikthered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 01:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
Minors (Triple A)
 
Stinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 241
Thanks: 52
Thanked 127x in 69 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcblcommish View Post
lol, you are right. I'm not sure now. The ES line say IT but the others say IT%. Now I'm confused.
It looks to me like they have even strength lines going by time per game, while special teams are a percentage of the special situation (powerplay, penalty kill, or 4-on-4). In that screenshot, the first line will play about 22 minutes of the game, while the first powerplay line, for example, will get 75% of the ice time on a powerplay.

As for the name of this distribution, I have to agree with tcblcommish. I think calling it "Time on Ice" would draw too much of a parallel to the actual TOI stat, and people may think it's an absolute setting; that what they set is exactly what that line will play, and then complain when it doesn't necessarily work out that way.
__________________
The Blue Line moderator

Last edited by Stinson; 02-02-2013 at 01:51 AM.
Stinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 02:08 AM   #8 (permalink)
FHM Producer
 
JeffR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Kelowna, BC
Posts: 3,744
Thanks: 46
Thanked 4,149x in 1,001 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by erikthered View Post
The ES lines total up to 60, which I like because it reflects the familiar stat.
Yeah, that's the basic idea. We could've made the even strength lines a percentage number, too, but when people are planning line use, they usualy think in terms of minutes played. Having the minutes number right there saves some mental math.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinson View Post
It looks to me like they have even strength lines going by time per game, while special teams are a percentage of the special situation (powerplay, penalty kill, or 4-on-4). In that screenshot, the first line will play about 22 minutes of the game, while the first powerplay line, for example, will get 75% of the ice time on a powerplay.
Exactly.
JeffR is offline   Reply With Quote
4 thanks for this post:
Cryomaniac (02-02-2013), grindline (02-02-2013), no way (02-02-2013), scuffleball (02-02-2013)
Old 02-02-2013, 09:46 AM   #9 (permalink)
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,232
Thanks: 72
Thanked 120x in 68 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffR View Post
Yeah, that's the basic idea. We could've made the even strength lines a percentage number, too, but when people are planning line use, they usualy think in terms of minutes played. Having the minutes number right there saves some mental math.



Exactly.
Except that the TOI that you see for players includes their PP and SH time. The Even strength TOI should not add up to 60 since there will very rarely be 60 Even strength minutes in a game.

I'd think having the Even strength time also go by % allows the coach to think the same way for all parts of the game.
tward13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 10:35 AM   #10 (permalink)
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 8,286
Thanks: 430
Thanked 1,880x in 1,114 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tward13 View Post
Except that the TOI that you see for players includes their PP and SH time. The Even strength TOI should not add up to 60 since there will very rarely be 60 Even strength minutes in a game.

I'd think having the Even strength time also go by % allows the coach to think the same way for all parts of the game.

I'm thinking it works kind of like this (just speculation here btw).

You look at your ES line times as minutes, because there will always be 60 minutes in a game, regardless of PP/PK time. (Yes, there can be more than 60 min with OT, but there will never be less than 60 min). So you're setting your overall game strategy based on those 60 min. Then, as the game unfolds, your % of time for PP/PK will take effect and those ES min will be adjusted accordingly. It is not possible to know in advance if there will be 5, 10, 15 or whatever min of PP/PK time, but it is always possible to know there will be 60 min of game time.

At least that's the way I'm seeing it. Again, just speculation here. Hopefully we get a definitive answer from the Dev team.
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
CeeBee (02-02-2013)
Old 02-02-2013, 10:54 AM   #11 (permalink)
Minors (Double A)
 
CeeBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chase BC Canada
Posts: 105
Thanks: 152
Thanked 29x in 16 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
I'm thinking it works kind of like this (just speculation here btw).

You look at your ES line times as minutes, because there will always be 60 minutes in a game, regardless of PP/PK time. (Yes, there can be more than 60 min with OT, but there will never be less than 60 min). So you're setting your overall game strategy based on those 60 min. Then, as the game unfolds, your % of time for PP/PK will take effect and those ES min will be adjusted accordingly. It is not possible to know in advance if there will be 5, 10, 15 or whatever min of PP/PK time, but it is always possible to know there will be 60 min of game time.

At least that's the way I'm seeing it. Again, just speculation here. Hopefully we get a definitive answer from the Dev team.
Thats how I see it too and if so then I think they have it right.
CeeBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 11:18 AM   #12 (permalink)
Bat Boy
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Montreal, QC Canada
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0x in 0 posts
Curious as to how the game engine will reconcile ES IT minutes to the minutes dictated as it were by on ice circumstances if as a coach your strategy involves line matching?
Bones26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 11:27 AM   #13 (permalink)
Minors (Triple A)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 226
Blog Entries: 14
Thanks: 175
Thanked 75x in 57 posts
The line matching question above is a great one. I would love to know if the "coaches" you hire in-game have input in that area and indeed this whole screen.
As in, you hire a coach that is more line-matching or less line-matching oriented and would it impact this window?
And, further, would the "coach" have input into the TOI or IT assigned to this window?? Kind of like "ask the coach" what he thinks the breakdowns should be to get a sense of the strategy he uses. And you retain more of a GM role on your team?

Cannot WAIT for March 4th and September!!
Winnipeg59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 03:09 PM   #14 (permalink)
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 162
Thanks: 0
Thanked 64x in 29 posts
Just a cosmetic point I think but I would prefer if the power play short forms were LP and RP (Left point and right point) to reflect situations where a forward with a good shot is being used on the point.
Stealcompany is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 03:50 PM   #15 (permalink)
Minors (Double A)
 
fireholder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 175
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96x in 39 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealcompany View Post
Just a cosmetic point I think but I would prefer if the power play short forms were LP and RP (Left point and right point) to reflect situations where a forward with a good shot is being used on the point.
he's still playing defense, though.

that'd be like replacing "center" with "slot"
__________________

TBN's FHM Forum
TBN's FHM Downloads - coming soon
fireholder is offline   Reply With Quote
2 thanks for this post:
AESP_pres (02-02-2013), drewst18 (02-02-2013)
Old 02-02-2013, 04:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,232
Thanks: 72
Thanked 120x in 68 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
I'm thinking it works kind of like this (just speculation here btw).

You look at your ES line times as minutes, because there will always be 60 minutes in a game, regardless of PP/PK time. (Yes, there can be more than 60 min with OT, but there will never be less than 60 min). So you're setting your overall game strategy based on those 60 min. Then, as the game unfolds, your % of time for PP/PK will take effect and those ES min will be adjusted accordingly. It is not possible to know in advance if there will be 5, 10, 15 or whatever min of PP/PK time, but it is always possible to know there will be 60 min of game time.

At least that's the way I'm seeing it. Again, just speculation here. Hopefully we get a definitive answer from the Dev team.
Then why not just allocate percentages of ES time rather than minutes that may or may not happen? You're no more sure of ES minutes than PP or PK, so why % for PP and PK and TOI for ES?
tward13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 05:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
Major Leagues
 
scuffleball's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 345
Thanks: 294
Thanked 67x in 32 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tward13 View Post
Then why not just allocate percentages of ES time rather than minutes that may or may not happen? You're no more sure of ES minutes than PP or PK, so why % for PP and PK and TOI for ES?
My guess:

60 minutes in a game is known quantity.

No way of knowing how long a team will have on the PP/PK in each game, so you make it a PCT so it's doesn't matter if you have 1 PP or 15 PP.
__________________
I came. I saw. I played OOTP.
The Storm Tigers - my book, check it out!
scuffleball is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Cryomaniac (02-02-2013)
Old 02-02-2013, 05:32 PM   #18 (permalink)
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 8,286
Thanks: 430
Thanked 1,880x in 1,114 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scuffleball View Post
My guess:

60 minutes in a game is known quantity.

No way of knowing how long a team will have on the PP/PK in each game, so you make it a PCT so it's doesn't matter if you have 1 PP or 15 PP.

This
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 05:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 8,286
Thanks: 430
Thanked 1,880x in 1,114 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tward13 View Post
Then why not just allocate percentages of ES time rather than minutes that may or may not happen? You're no more sure of ES minutes than PP or PK, so why % for PP and PK and TOI for ES?
Before the puck is dropped, I know for sure there will be 60 minutes of game time, regardless if 0, 1, 5, or 10 penalties are called.

That was kind of what I was trying to say, I know how many minutes my team will play. So I plan for those minutes. I don't know how many PP/PK my team will have, so I use % because of that lack of knowledge.

Makes sense to me anyway.
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Cryomaniac (02-02-2013)
Old 02-02-2013, 07:17 PM   #20 (permalink)
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,232
Thanks: 72
Thanked 120x in 68 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
Before the puck is dropped, I know for sure there will be 60 minutes of game time, regardless if 0, 1, 5, or 10 penalties are called.

That was kind of what I was trying to say, I know how many minutes my team will play. So I plan for those minutes. I don't know how many PP/PK my team will have, so I use % because of that lack of knowledge.

Makes sense to me anyway.
But it's not asking you how many minutes of game time on that screen. It's asking you how many minutes of ES time and you DON'T know how many minutes of ES time there will be anymore than you know how many minutes of PP or PK. What you do know is what % of whatever ES time there is that you'd like to allocate to each line.

That's why in games with lots of penalties 4th lines may get fewer chances. In effect what is happening is their peercentage of ES time isn't changing but their amount of time is because there are fewer ES minutes to allocate.

I always know the desired split of time for each line, what I don't know is how many minutes of any type of time (ES, PP, PK) there will be.
tward13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
Copyright © 2014 Out of the Park Developments