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Old 03-06-2013, 09:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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FaceGen - A suggestion from a FaceGen maker

My suggestion, after seeing pictures from the NHL draft, would be to use a hockey sweater and baseball cap in the game. The baseball cap would mask the lack of hair and the SI watermark just like in OOTP. Seems like a better fit than a helmet to me because the goalies would just look odd in a skater's helmet in my opinion.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Personally, I hope they opt for doing hair in some way.

Helmets would look strange, especially, like you point out, on goalies. But I think hats would look very out-of-place, and even come off as lazy since this is coming from a baseball game.

I'm sure doing some kind of "HairGen" and a way of hiding the SI logo would be more work, but it'd give us the most proper result.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Stinson View Post
Personally, I hope they opt for doing hair in some way.

Helmets would look strange, especially, like you point out, on goalies. But I think baseball caps would look very out-of-place, and even come off as lazy since this is coming from a baseball game.

I'm sure doing some kind of "HairGen" and a way of hiding the SI logo would be more work, but it'd give us the most proper result.
Aftermarket hair mods for FaceGen always look fake, the only way to get real hair, is the customizer add-on and that means someone has to be spending 600 dollars on the two pieces of software. So, I'm not sure that will be much of an option.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:53 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by qcbandits View Post
Aftermarket hair mods for FaceGen always look fake
More fake than hockey players wearing baseball caps?
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
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More fake than hockey players wearing baseball caps?
A LOT more fake. Plus, the SI logo is going to be a problem. The only way to remove it is to create the face using the paid version. Which rules out the idea of the average user ever being able to make FaceGens. If I am understanding things correctly, FaceGen needs to be user-created because of copy-rights. Not many people are going to shell out 600 dollars in order to make mods for the game.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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As much as I hate to go into that area but there are ways to do things to get it done, it just cannot be official
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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newly drafted players until they play their first nhl game with a baseball cap would be fine but otherwise it would look very out of place. With that said if it can't be done right what's the point of doing it all? It would do more harm then good. Remove the faces and just allow jerseys or get the lisence. Baseball caps and helmets are not the answer.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tcblcommish View Post
As much as I hate to go into that area but there are ways to do things to get it done, it just cannot be official
HAHA I know exactly what you're talking about and I have some experience in that field. In all actuality, I have been doing a lot reading tonight and the more I read, the less likely hair seems. Besides the pricing issue, it seems the file sizes will be a lot bigger than normal FaceGens for OOTP are, plus it'd be very time consuming and resource sucking.

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To me, it seems some kind of head gear is going to be needed, otherwise you're stuck with using some of the aftermarket hair models, which means it's not going to be overly realistic looking.


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newly drafted players until they play their first nhl game with a baseball cap would be fine but otherwise it would look very out of place. With that said if it can't be done right what's the point of doing it all? It would do more harm then good. Remove the faces and just allow jerseys or get the lisence. Baseball caps and helmets are not the answer.
Even without hair, and using some kind of head gear, FaceGen will add a lot to immersion level of the game. Coming from OOTP, there is nothing like seeing your newly traded for player in your Jersey. FaceGens are all nice, compared to player photos because once you get a good FaceGEN, there is no need to update all the time like there is with the player photos. One FaceGEN will suffice for a player all the way from Juniors up to the NHL.

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Old 03-06-2013, 11:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qcbandits View Post
A LOT more fake.
I have to disagree. I'm not sure what hair mods you're referring to, but Football Manager has been pulling it off pretty well for years. Sure, you get some goofy looking hair sometimes, but it's still believable enough.

In the end, I agree with Dave - if it can't be done properly, then it's probably best not to do it at all. I love the facegen, but it's going to need a lot of re-tooling before it fits properly with a hockey game. Because, I'd hate to say it, but I don't think baseball caps should even be in the question; they just wouldn't make any sense, and again, would probably even make FHM look like a lazy port of OOTP.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:08 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Stinson View Post
I have to disagree. I'm not sure what hair mods you're referring to, but Football Manager has been pulling it off pretty well for years. Sure, you get some goofy looking hair sometimes, but it's still believable enough.

In the end, I agree with Dave - if it can't be done properly, then it's probably best not to do it at all. I love the facegen, but it's going to need a lot of re-tooling before it fits properly with a hockey game. Because, I'd hate to say it, but I don't think baseball caps should even be in the question; they just wouldn't make any sense, and again, would probably even make FHM look like a lazy port of OOTP.
I don't play Football Manager, so I have a question regarding that comment, are their FaceGENS included in the game, or are they user created? Because based on the OOTP version of FaceGEN, which I'd assume FHM would be using, they are all user created. This means the only way to cover up the SI watermark is with some version of head gear. Plus if I'm not mistaken, any third party hair mod would be added in the game, not on the file itself.

This means, without some kind of head gear, the only people who could create FaceGens for FHM would be someone with a paid version of the software. The whole beauty of OOTP's FaceGEN is the fact that anyone has the ability to create them and that's how the sets that are available are as complete as they are.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by qcbandits View Post
I don't play Football Manager, so I have a question regarding that comment, are their FaceGENS included in the game, or are they user created? Because based on the OOTP version of FaceGEN, which I'd assume FHM would be using, they are all user created. This means the only way to cover up the SI watermark is with some version of head gear. Plus if I'm not mistaken, any third party hair mod would be added in the game, not on the file itself.

This means, without some kind of head gear, the only people who could create FaceGens for FHM would be someone with a paid version of the software. The whole beauty of OOTP's FaceGEN is the fact that anyone has the ability to create them and that's how the sets that are available are as complete as they are.
But why can't the game just overlay hair, instead of a hat? I made a facegen of myself a while back for OOTP 13, and all I did was place the exported file from the FaceGen software, and then OOTP itself added all the baseball-specific extras, like the hat, jersey, and background. Why can't it do the same here, except instead of a hat, it places a cut-out of some hair? I don't know if they still do it this way, but I know Football Manager at one time used simple hair cut-outs, and it looked fine. Like I said above, some were a little funny, but it was still believable enough.

Then, just create another overlay of some kind that lays a skin-colored patch over the SI logo, and you should have a FaceGen.

If that's too complicated, or simply doesn't work, then I think we can all agree that what works for a baseball game isn't necessarily going to work for a hockey game, and a new, proper, solution should be sought out.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:50 AM   #12 (permalink)
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But why can't the game just overlay hair, instead of a hat? I made a facegen of myself a while back for OOTP 13, and all I did was place the exported file from the FaceGen software, and then OOTP itself added all the baseball-specific extras, like the hat, jersey, and background. Why can't it do the same here, except instead of a hat, it places a cut-out of some hair? I don't know if they still do it this way, but I know Football Manager at one time used simple hair cut-outs, and it looked fine. Like I said above, some were a little funny, but it was still believable enough.

Then, just create another overlay of some kind that lays a skin-colored patch over the SI logo, and you should have a FaceGen.

If that's too complicated, or simply doesn't work, then I think we can all agree that what works for a baseball game isn't necessarily going to work for a hockey game, and a new, proper, solution should be sought out.
I just wonder how easy that is to do? I hope Sebastian will weigh in with what the plans are for FaceGEN, as I'm already kinda invested, since I'm almost done with my first team.

I also don't know how easy it would be to have multiple hair styles? I am pretty sure that's why OOTP has never done anything officially with hair.

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Old 03-07-2013, 08:22 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Hockey FaceGens are gonna be fun to do

Players smile less than their baseball counterparts and with pics being taken indoors, there is no sun or shadows making the lighting messed up. Plus I can't even begin to say how much I love the fact that there are no hats pulled down to the edge of the eye

These are the things that drive me crazy about baseball FaceGens, the ones for FHM are gonna come out VERY VERY nice!!!
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:40 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Are the FaceGens in OOTP png files?
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:42 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Have them wear helmets.

Problem solved.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:12 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Are the FaceGens in OOTP png files?
Jerseys and hats are .PNG
the actual FaceGens are .FG

I am having a ball working on some early files
Sebastian needs to implement FaceGen soon in the game. Even if there is no way to create fictional faces in the game yet, I wanna see how the ones I'm making will look

I have another possible head gear solution, back in the day, I used to work as a front office intern for the AHL's Peoria Rivermen. The players used to wear team stocking caps ALL the time. This would once again be a simple solution to covering the watermark and not having to worry about realistic hair.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:19 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Jerseys and hats are .PNG
the actual FaceGens are .FG

I am having a ball working on some early files
Sebastian needs to implement FaceGen soon in the game. Even if there is no way to create fictional faces in the game yet, I wanna see how the ones I'm making will look

I have another possible head gear solution, back in the day, I used to work as a front office intern for the AHL's Peoria Rivermen. The players used to wear team stocking caps ALL the time. This would once again be a simple solution to covering the watermark and not having to worry about realistic hair.
Thatīs good to know. I just tried out the free version and iīm simply impressed. And i like the idea with the stocking caps. If someone doesnīt like it he can download the facepacks.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:27 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Thatīs good to know. I just tried out the free version and iīm simply impressed. And i like the idea with the stocking caps. If someone doesnīt like it he can download the facepacks.
I used to love the photo packs for OOTP back in the day and have made some of the EHM player cards based on a couple of card designs over at the Blue Line.
But having used FaceGen now for a while in OOTP, it would be hard to not have it for me, the added immersion factor is very very high.

Yeah, I am really liking the stocking cap idea too, the more I think about it. Easy to put together for anyone who wants to great them. Come up with a simple template and change to team colors and possibly add a team logo.

To JeffR or Sebastian.. Is Andreas helping implement FaceGen for you guys? OOTP is just now getting the ability to have more than one jersey, this would be cool in FHM as well
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:59 AM   #19 (permalink)
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The stocking caps thing isn't a bad idea, but might seem weird when EVERYBODY is wearing them. If we can't do just hair, then helmets are the only way to go. For goalies, perhaps a custom hat layer for goalie masks? Is it possible to have two different "hat layers" on the facegen images, one for skaters and one for netminders?
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:08 AM   #20 (permalink)
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The stocking caps thing isn't a bad idea, but might seem weird when EVERYBODY is wearing them. If we can't do just hair, then helmets are the only way to go. For goalies, perhaps a custom hat layer for goalie masks? Is it possible to have two different "hat layers" on the facegen images, one for skaters and one for netminders?
Not that I'm aware of. With OOTP, we get a hat on everyone from players, to owners, general managers, even the doctors. I've requested, over on the OOTP mod side of the forums to see if anyone can tweak the existing templates enough to make a better hockey jersey and stocking cap so I can show some mockups and try and find a good solution.

Helmets just don't seem right to me, because of the goalies. seeing a goalie wearing a regular helmet is weird and I'm not sure how easy separate helmet types would be to do??
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