Game Systems: Player Attribute Development and Training

[JeffR]

As promised, here's the first in a series of more detailed looks at the game's internal systems. I'll be posting these as I write them up for the manual (where they'll get nicer formatting), but there's no reason not to post them now as well. I'm not going to give extremely specific numbers, e.g. the exact values for the chance of something occurring, but I may mention some general boundaries, e.g. what constitutes a normal rate of improvement for player attributes.

One word on terminology: I'm using the term "Attributes" here to describe the individual player ratings, e.g. faceoffs, acceleration, leadership, etc. I don't think that word actually shows up in the interface anywhere, but we use it internally to specify that level of editing within the broader category of "ratings," which can also include things like positional ratings, collective groupings of attributes, potentials, etc. The attributes are divided into six ratings groups: Offense, Defense, Goalie, Mental, Physical, and Hidden. The Hidden attributes don't change, so they won't be discussed here. Skaters use all of groups except Goalie; Goaltenders use only Goalie and Mental (and they replace a couple of attributes in the Mental group with goalie-specific ones.) You can see which attributes belong to which ratings groups on the "Ratings" screen of the Player Profile.

Offense, Defense, and Goaltending Attributes

The individual Offensive, Defensive, and Goaltending attributes each have a monthly chance at improving. The exact chance is the product of a two-step (three for some) procedure.

First, a check is made against the player's Coachability attribute; if this check is failed, the player's chance of improvement is penalized significantly - he just wasn't interested in listening to what the coaches had to say that month. The player's current Happiness level influences the check; an angry player with a bad attitude isn't going to see much of an improvement.

Next up is a test of the effectiveness of his team's coaches. The player is automatically assigned a "position coach", based on his preferred position: the coach on the team with the highest "Coaching Goalies/Defense/Forwards" attribute, as appropriate. (The automatic assignment eliminates some mindless busy work by doing what the player would do anyhow, assigning the best positional coach to each player.) If that coach's check is passed, the player's chance of improving the attribute receives a bonus; if it's failed, a penalty. The exact amount of the bonus or penalty depends on the player's training settings - if the attribute is part of the the primary training focus, it's a large bonus and small penalty; the secondary focus gets slightly less of a bonus and more of a penalty, and if it's not part of a focus at all, the bonus is the smallest possible and the penalty the largest.

And that requires a little more detail on the training focus system: the player's Offensive, Defensive, and Goaltending attributes are further separated into two subcategories, Mental and Skill:

Offensive Mental - Offensive Read, Getting Open, Screening
Offensive Skill - Passing, Puckhandling, Shooting Accuracy, Shooting Range
Defensive Mental - Defensive Read, Positioning, Shot Blocking
Defensive Skill - Faceoffs, Hitting, Pokechecking, Checking
Goalie Mental - Positioning, Poke Check, Rebound, Puckhandling
Goalie Skill - Blocker, Glove, Reflexes, Skating, Passing

(The "mental" attributes are ones that tend to improve as the player becomes smarter and more experienced, while the "skill" attributes are things that get better from simple practice, repetition, and technique refinement.)

Each player can be assigned one of those subcategories as his primary training focus and another one as the secondary. This is done by right-clicking the player's name on any roster screen (we had a separate training screen at one point, but removing that and building its features into the roster display made the user's workload a little easier.)

Finally, if the player is age 24 or under, they get a chance at a special "Prospect" bonus - this is a check done using the ratings of the coach with the highest "Coaching Prospects" rating on the team. When managing in a junior league, then, that rating should obviously be a strong criteria for hiring coaches.

Once all the bonuses and penalties are calculated, they're added to the base chance of improvement, and a simple pass/fail check is done against that adjusted chance of success.
If a player repeatedly passes every possible check, the bonuses will mean his chance of getting at least one point of improvement in that attribute over the course of a year should approach 100% (and it's possible, with some luck, that he could improve the attribute multiple times.) If he keeps failing every check, the chance of improvement will be near (but never equal to) zero.

These three attribute categories are all capped by separate potential ratings for each - once the maximum potential total is reached, the player won't improve further in that category. There is, however, a chance (and I won't specify exactly how or when) that those potential ratings can change. In general, most players shouldn't see their potential change by large amounts over time, but there is a chance that an exceptionally good or bad run of luck could move it up or down significantly.

Physical Attributes

The attributes in the "Physical" subcategory work a little differently. They're also checked individually, but only twice a year instead of monthly. The chance of improving them is entirely age-dependent, with the most rapid advances coming at a young age, and the odds gradually declining until the chance of physical improvement ends entirely at age 28. The player's best Physical Attributes are the most likely ones to improve further, as they get a bonus to their chance while the worst ones receive a penalty.

Mental Attributes

The Mental attributes are also handled differently. Some of them - Aggression, Determination, Bravery, and Coachability - have almost no chance of changing, just a low-odds check once a year that can cause a small (one-point) fluctuation in either direction. The other mental attributes (Team Player, Leadership, and Temperament) should increase slowly as a player ages - average luck will see a 1-point increase in each every 4 years - so veteran players will tend to have good numbers for those attributes. Mental attributes for goaltenders are a little different; for them, Mental Toughness and Stamina replace Bravery and Temperament. Both of those attributes belong to the group that sees steady improvement with age.

Neither physical nor mental attributes are restricted by potential ratings.

[Mafarfloune]

A big thanks for letting us know about thoe inner workings.

Are there any plans to make some of the hidden attributes change over time too? Obviously greed, loyalty, adaptability should be constant numbers, but some of those attributes do tend to change over a player's career : We've seen players become more consistent over time, others become less consistent. Same with big game performance. Some players learn to pass/shoot more often then they would at the beginning of their careers.

In any case, I really like the development model. Cheers.

[Skiwiz17]

Thanks alot for those informations! I still have some questions on how it is working :

-Is age having an influence (appart for the under 24 prospect rule) on players developpement in the offense/defense/goaltending areas?
-Could we have more information on the downgrading process happening after players pass the ''peak'' age (which is 26 by default I think). I observed that my players tend to lose half a star each year after 26, systematically.
-How is the star ratings calculated? Is it normal that some players gain more stars than their potential? If it's the case it is genius.
-Finally, is there any hidden stat, player specific, that influences favourably or negatively the learning curve or the longevity of the players?

Thanks alot for the answers, sorry if some of those questions have already been asked on this forum, by the way even if we're still in bêta phase I can say that the game will be terrifficly good!

[Javs]

Originally Posted by JeffR

Mental Attributes

The Mental attributes are also handled differently. Some of them - Aggression, Determination, Bravery, and Coachability - have almost no chance of changing, just a low-odds check once a year that can cause a small (one-point) fluctuation in either direction.

I think Aggression should change as players get older, at least if they have a high aggression rating in their prime. A lot of aggressive players in their prime cool-off as they age.

Also younger players may become more aggressive if it is needed for them to succeed. But I do understand that this one will probably be harder to code...

[tfong]

Looks great

Thanks for the update!

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by Mafarfloune

A big thanks for letting us know about thoe inner workings.

Are there any plans to make some of the hidden attributes change over time too? Obviously greed, loyalty, adaptability should be constant numbers, but some of those attributes do tend to change over a player's career : We've seen players become more consistent over time, others become less consistent. Same with big game performance. Some players learn to pass/shoot more often then they would at the beginning of their careers.

In any case, I really like the development model. Cheers.

I wasn't planning on it, but you've got a point, I remember how Kesler deciding to shoot more messed with the chemistry of the Canucks' second line. I'll take a look through the hidden ones and see which ones it makes sense to change, and how; it'll probably have to be done on a case-by-case basis for each attribute.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by Skiwiz17

Thanks alot for those informations! I still have some questions on how it is working :

-Is age having an influence (appart for the under 24 prospect rule) on players developpement in the offense/defense/goaltending areas?

No, just the under-24 effect, and the likelihood that the player won't have access to elite coaching at lower levels.

-Could we have more information on the downgrading process happening after players pass the ''peak'' age (which is 26 by default I think). I observed that my players tend to lose half a star each year after 26, systematically.

Yeah, I'll show you that soon, I deliberately left the aging/retirement process out of this topic for now, since there's a lot there to describe.

-How is the star ratings calculated? Is it normal that some players gain more stars than their potential? If it's the case it is genius.

The star ratings will be disappearing soon, we're going to switch to a 10-point model that'll be used for both internal calculations and external display to the user. I'll give a few more details about that when we add it.

Finally, is there any hidden stat, player specific, that influences favourably or negatively the learning curve or the longevity of the players?

Yup, the Aging attribute does exactly that, determines the point at which the player's decline starts, and changes dynamically based on certain events in the player's career. More on that when I talk about aging/decline.

[Hotstreak]

So, if I read this right, there will be no way to purposefully train a player's physical attributes like speed, endurance, etc? We're kind of just left hoping they improve?

[benspit]

Hi Jeff. I've a question about size and weight of players and how it ties into some of these attributes. Actually a couple of questions!

1. Will a players size and weight increase/decrease over time? If I train a player specifically in strength will I see an increase in weight?

2. Will a players size/weight affect any of the attributes? For example? A 6'6, 250lb behemoth has a high strength attribute?

3. Will size/weight even make a difference in the game?

[benspit]

Woop, just read a few posts in the latest beta update stickie and think my questions here have been answered already! Unless there is anything else you can add?

[GermanRocket7]

Regarding some of the hidden attributes I think it would be benefitial to have most-liked as well as most-hated teams/personnel/etc. for a player.

To clarify my point as to whether it would be useful or even necessary to implement:

Take Bobby Ryan, now with the Ottawa Senators, formerly with the Ducks. He's usually a very loyal player and basically "just wants to play hockey", but he pretty much burned down the bridge in Anaheim over the past two years.

Whenever his name came up in trade rumors (all of which had been debunked by Bob Murray, Ducks GM), Bobby would cry out about it publicly. It even went so far that he stated he would love to play alongside Giroux in Philly, especially since he's a local kid.

Utterances like these indicate that some players do have, in fact, a preferred destination to play at. It's still rather questionable if Ryan will ever re-sign with Ottawa after his contract expires in two years and he has been linked to Philly more than once.

Another case to make would be that of Eric Lindros, albeit that was, obviously, a very unique one.

Nevertheless I am of the opinion that implementing favorite teams or personnel would benefit the realism of the game greatly. See how Jordan Staal joined Carolina because he forced a trade to play with his brother? Things like these definitely add to the product, I'd say.

Of course, this is probably impossible to implement in the first version of the series as it is already at an advanced stage of programming. However, I think it would be a neat addition to later installments of the franchise.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by Hotstreak

So, if I read this right, there will be no way to purposefully train a player's physical attributes like speed, endurance, etc? We're kind of just left hoping they improve?

Right now, yes. I know that runs counter to the way it works in a lot of games, but I think being able to direct the development of those attributes in the same way as things like puck skills or defensive play isn't realistic. That's something that's more player-directed, and as management you take what you get, whether it's Dave Andreychuk's skating staying terrible for 20+ years or Steve Stamkos adding a bunch of muscle in the offseasons.

When we add some more detail to the internal operations of teams (in future game versions), there should be options to increase the base chance of physical improvements for all players, e.g. spending more money on better fitness facilities, nutrition, strength coaching, etc., but it's never going to be a situation where you can take a particular player, point at a physical flaw, and fix that specifically.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by benspit

Woop, just read a few posts in the latest beta update stickie and think my questions here have been answered already! Unless there is anything else you can add?

No, I think I pretty much covered it there - this post if anyone wants to read it.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by GermanRocket7

Nevertheless I am of the opinion that implementing favorite teams or personnel would benefit the realism of the game greatly. See how Jordan Staal joined Carolina because he forced a trade to play with his brother? Things like these definitely add to the product, I'd say.

Favourite/disliked teams are already implemented, actually, although I think we need to refine the effect a bit. Player relationships are something that'll get developed in the future - what I want to have is a system that handles things a little more flexibly than just listing a few 1-to-1 relationships for brothers, cousins, friends, etc., and can evolve dynamically. It'll probably revolve more around groups of variable size and relationship strength, so the same model could handle different situations like a big extended Sutter-like family, a successful junior line wanting to stay together as pros, or a team's old-boys network that tends to hire each other.

[JBob]

So there are no skating ability attributes for skaters? By that I mean speed, acceleration, edges, etc?

[geckon]

Originally Posted by JBob

So there are no skating ability attributes for skaters? By that I mean speed, acceleration, edges, etc?

There are such attributes but they are part of "physical" attributes and as such their improvement is controlled by another mechanisms than the other attributes'.

[gosens]

Jeff thanks for this post, I'm looking forward to more of them.

This may be a separate topic than player development but this post made me think of it:

Will there be any mechanism in the game that might trigger a hot streak or a slump for a string of games, or a big game or off-night for an individual game? These would not permanently affect their stats (or if they could, only very rarely) but would boost or penalize their ratings at game time.

[jayze302]

So, unless I missed something, a player's playing time has no influence on development? This seems to be a big oversight. Hopefully I am just missing it from the post.

[jayze302]

Originally Posted by jayze302

So, unless I missed something, a player's playing time has no influence on development? This seems to be a big oversight. Hopefully I am just missing it from the post.

Still kind of looking for an answer to this...

[Hockey13Playa]

I own the game but just haven't played much due to the bugs!! I fully support the team and topics like this get me extremely pumped for the direction this game is heading. I cannot wait to dive into this game and get serious with it!

Thanks for this detailed post Jeff!!! Looking forward to reading more!