to be honest....I kinda want my money back

[1025]

It kind of pisses me off when we have Datsyuk on waivers probably 3 weeks into the season, almost every time.

it kind of pisses me off that computers wont' trade draftpicks.

it kind of pisses me off that there is a lack of communication regarding to fixes.

FHM staff, I'd highly suggest, on the next release, FHM 2015, have a significant discount for FHM 2014 owners.... because.. let's face it... 2014 is unplayable for your hardcore fans that WANTS the experience much like OOTP has produced.

Get back to basics, offer to buy EHM from SI games, and merge both teams together to create the ultimate game. EHM was working, perfectly..the old EHM, not even the new ones with SI...

sigh...

[jwinn66]

We all loved EHM, but it's been 7 years since they've produced it. Working Perfectly might be a bit of a stretch.

I mean, they stopped producing it for a reason, right? I know they blamed piracy, but I'd argue piracy is more rampant now than in 2007.

Send a PM to a dev and ask for a refund.

[BradC]

Sebastian set up a thread for communications RE fixes and it has been used by him and Jeff to let everyone know what's going on. We have company meetings happening right now in Germany, so I'll see if I can get an update on what's happening with the match engine update.

Buying EHM from SI obviously isn't an option for us.

You are free to request a refund. Thanks.

[tcblcommish]

My god I'm so tired of people comparing Ootp 15 and fhm. It is not a fair comparison. I might get into trouble for saying this but if you thought buying a game in its first year will be as in depth and polished as a game that has been out and done for 15 years, you are a complete idiot.

Not directed at the op specifically, just tired of this comparison that is completely unfair

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[Rasmuth]

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

My god I'm so tired of people comparing Ootp 15 and fhm. It is not a fair comparison. I might get into trouble for saying this but if you thought buying a game in its first year will be as in depth and polished as a game that has been out and done for 15 years, you are a complete idiot.

Not directed at the op specifically, just tired of this comparison that is completely unfair

To a certain extent I agree with you on this...this is the first incarnation of the game, but I think many people (myself included) figured with so much experience with OOTP, that some of that knowledge and even some of the ideas and code would inherently be utilized to develop this game...and perhaps unfairly in retrospect...produce a more advanced and more stable first version of the game. And I'm sure many thought for the same reason that responses to bugs and overall game fixes would be a bit easier, with so much experience behind this company with OOTP.

[Mordrehl]

Originally Posted by BradC

Sebastian set up a thread for communications RE fixes and it has been used by him and Jeff to let everyone know what's going on. We have company meetings happening right now in Germany, so I'll see if I can get an update on what's happening with the match engine update.

Buying EHM from SI obviously isn't an option for us.

You are free to request a refund. Thanks.

I presume you mean this thread:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-thread-2.html

The one that starts with the words "3-4 updates a week" from Sebastien and that has not been posted in by either JeffR or Sebastien in exactly 3 weeks? I'm sorry, but the "used by him and Jeff to let everyone know what's going on" is a stretch when they go silent for weeks at a time

[Mordrehl]

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

My god I'm so tired of people comparing Ootp 15 and fhm. It is not a fair comparison. I might get into trouble for saying this but if you thought buying a game in its first year will be as in depth and polished as a game that has been out and done for 15 years, you are a complete idiot.

Not directed at the op specifically, just tired of this comparison that is completely unfair

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Nope ... it's not a fair comparison. Buuuuuut ... you'd think from a development team that had just put OOTP13 and 14 on the shelves, that the UI for FHM would have been far more refined. You'd think after ... what? 7 months since launch? That we would finally have Restricted Free Agents operating properly ... we'd have a trade engine that was somewhat better etc etc ...

I would say it's fair to say the quality of FHM at launch was horrendous, and many bugs/glitches/balance issues that existed at launch persist to this day. Something you don't expect from a company producing a quality product like OOTP

[Rich Tiger Fan]

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

My god I'm so tired of people comparing Ootp 15 and fhm. It is not a fair comparison. I might get into trouble for saying this but if you thought buying a game in its first year will be as in depth and polished as a game that has been out and done for 15 years, you are a complete idiot.

Not directed at the op specifically, just tired of this comparison that is completely unfair

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

I also agree with you to an extent. I totally agree that thinking that this game would be as polished as OOTP is silly. On the other hand something that drives me just as crazy is the "This is the first version" crowd basically giving the game a free pass based on "potential". However most didn't buy this game for it's potential. They bought it for it's feature list which was pretty rich, but most features either are not there or do not work as expected or intended.

First versions of games should work correctly. As much as you shouldn't expect the game to be verseion 15 of OOTP, you also should expect that through natural learning progression that FHM Version 1 should not be OOTP v1. It should be much more refined than that game was. Now admittedly I never played OOTP v1 or v2. I started with version 3 and I can tell you for a fact that the fun factor and the "whatever it is" that brings you back to a game over and over again was already there in v3 of OOTP.

I won't say FHM is unplayable, what I will say is the game has next to zero entertainment value. It has nothing to keep me coming back. I've played it, other than purely simming to see results, for about 2 hours since beta. I purchased about 2 months before beta ended.

I've been very quiet about this game but I am disappointed. As a long time OOTP player and a hockey guy I expected more than what we got.

Yet I am not fully giving up just yet. I will most likely purchase FHM15 when it comes out but that will be the litmus test for me. If it fails the fun test then I most likely won't go down that road again, at least for a while.

[AlpineSK]

Originally Posted by Rich Tiger Fan

I also agree with you to an extent. I totally agree that thinking that this game would be as polished as OOTP is silly. On the other hand something that drives me just as crazy is the "This is the first version" crowd basically giving the game a free pass based on "potential". However most didn't buy this game for it's potential. They bought it for it's feature list which was pretty rich, but most features either are not there or do not work as expected or intended.

First versions of games should work correctly. As much as you shouldn't expect the game to be verseion 15 of OOTP, you also should expect that through natural learning progression that FHM Version 1 should not be OOTP v1. It should be much more refined than that game was. Now admittedly I never played OOTP v1 or v2. I started with version 3 and I can tell you for a fact that the fun factor and the "whatever it is" that brings you back to a game over and over again was already there in v3 of OOTP.

I won't say FHM is unplayable, what I will say is the game has next to zero entertainment value. It has nothing to keep me coming back. I've played it, other than purely simming to see results, for about 2 hours since beta. I purchased about 2 months before beta ended.

I've been very quiet about this game but I am disappointed. As a long time OOTP player and a hockey guy I expected more than what we got.

Yet I am not fully giving up just yet. I will most likely purchase FHM15 when it comes out but that will be the litmus test for me. If it fails the fun test then I most likely won't go down that road again, at least for a while.

Exactly. It should perform better than a 1st generation game 15 years ago. I started playing at version 4 and what i saw over the years was an evolution of the game. OOTP 4 (obviously) did not have all of the features at OOTP 15 does, but the difference is those features all worked as intended, or as close as possible.

[tcblcommish]

Nowhere in what I said did I say anything about people not expecting or shouldn't have a working stable game but people that say that this game should be as good as 15 is so dumb. First off, the guys working on this FHM game are not the guys working on the OOTP game so the familiarity of the engine is not as high as people might think unless I am wrong about that.

I am not one of the guys that says "free pass" for the mess up that this game has been right from day one. I rarely even turn this game on anymore but I was here at the start of OOTP and remember how many weird annd wacky bugs that we all went through as consumers of the product and how bad some parts really were. This one will be stable in time, it's a hell of a lot better now than it ever was at the start.

I have faith in the devlopers and loads of faith in OOTP and I know that v2 will be quite a bit better or at least believe anyways and I have thrown more money away than 40 in the past with other garbage titles from other companies so Im not that upset about it.

People can complain, people can ask for refunds but the comparison is what drives me nuts. It just lacks total logic

[1025]

Originally Posted by jwinn66

We all loved EHM, but it's been 7 years since they've produced it. Working Perfectly might be a bit of a stretch.

I mean, they stopped producing it for a reason, right? I know they blamed piracy, but I'd argue piracy is more rampant now than in 2007.

Send a PM to a dev and ask for a refund.

I was talking about EHM of the old days.

SI's EHM release wasn't working perfectly either.

[1025]

Originally Posted by BradC

You are free to request a refund. Thanks.

That, is kind of... disappointing as a comment from an Admin.

[1025]

And my final comment is this.

I've been buying OOTP products for years, when I saw they wanted to dib their toes into hockey, I nearly passed out from excitement.
I bought the game when it was announced, I paid a good amount of money for a game that is expected to be polished.

Growing pains for a game is for Alpha development or Steam Greenlit

Had OOTP came out and said, FHM is going to start as an alpha project, expect delays and bugs, but paying for alpha pre-access now would have first experiences!

Instead, they decided to market it as a finished product now, and.... development has gone to a standing still cause they probably want to release it again as FHM 2015.

[IvanIvanovich]

Originally Posted by 1025

And my final comment is this.

Had OOTP came out and said, FHM is going to start as an alpha project, expect delays and bugs, but paying for alpha pre-access now would have first experiences!

Instead, they decided to market it as a finished product now, and.... development has gone to a standing still cause they probably want to release it again as FHM 2015.

Copied from http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/fran...ckey-manager/:

The most complete Hockey Game ever

Hrmm...

features everything you need to build your own hockey world

I wish...

Franchise Hockey Manager ("FHM") is the deepest, most immersive, and most customizable hockey management game in the world

Really? How do I sign a Head Coach?

Sign free agents, trade players,

Well...


The fact is that the game isn't billed as a "work in progress". It is sold as a fully working game.

I really don't think I'm alone in thinking that we're not getting what's advertised...

[AlpineSK]

Well, in their defense it is pretty much the ONLY hockey management game in the world

[BradC]

Originally Posted by 1025

That, is kind of... disappointing as a comment from an Admin.

I'm sorry, but I don't know what else to say. We have been willing to look at refund requests made outside our 14-day window, so you can go that route, if you want. We've been asking people to stick with us as we go through these growing pains, but we can't build a time machine and go back to fix what we readily admit was a rocky launch. All we can say is that we're taking everyone's comments to heart and have learned many lessons to apply to FHM 2015, as well as to the match engine update we're working on.

RE this:

Instead, they decided to market it as a finished product now, and.... development has gone to a standing still cause they probably want to release it again as FHM 2015.

Untrue. We're having our company meetings in Germany this week, and I can tell you that Jeff, Malte, and Sebastian have been doing a lot of work on not only the next FHM 2014 update but also FHM 2015. It's been a very productive week, and Jeff told me he hopes to have a status update we can put on the forum very soon.

[checkyoursixx]

While the game is difficult and mostly no fun to play, I have faith that future versions of FHM will continue to improve. Hopefully next years edition closes the gap between FHM and OOTP.

Being the first year of the game, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. The only concern I have is the fact they went Steam Greenlit a little too early. I'm sure sales increased but it also introduced more people to a mediocre game. First impressions are important to the more casual crowd. Being a die hard hockey fan I would buy the game regardless but not everyone shares my views.

[Hanson Bros]

everyone who bought this version should get the next one for free ... it has been an absolute disaster ...

[AlpineSK]

Originally Posted by Hanson Bros

everyone who bought this version should get the next one for free ... it has been an absolute disaster ...

Taking a break from the model trains to put on the foil and chime in on the boards I see. . .

[Doug]

I bought the game, and played it a total of maybe 5 minutes in the many months that it's been on my computer. I look at it as showing the company that their is 1 more person interested in hockey sim, and please continue to make hockey sims. Do I feel a little cheated out of $40? Sure I do, but I look at it from a glass half full stance. I do think that those who have bought this version may deserve a $10 coupon off of next years release, but even if we don't get that I'll still keep buying it as long as it shows considerable improvement.