iRacing.com website/info/screens

Jason Moyer · 02-16-2006, 12:11 PM

From the people who brought you Indycar Racing, Grand Prix Legends, and NASCAR Racing:

http://www.iracing.com/

Jason Moyer · 04-20-2008, 01:19 PM

Just bumping this since I know a few people here enjoyed Grand Prix Legends and Nascar 2003. There's a new interview with the VP of Marketing at iRacing with some info on the sim (which should be launching relatively soon):

iRacing_interview_hi.wmv

Bonedwarf · 04-20-2008, 05:29 PM

They were originally called FIRST, but changed their name when they got so much bad publicity from crucifying the NR2003 modding community. Lot of people will never touch any of their products again because of that. I know I won't. Their treatment of the community, the community that made their games so huge, was despicable.

Support ISI and Simbin if you want sims from companies that actually respect (and in the case of ISI encourage) the modding community.

Jpotapoff · 04-20-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonedwarf

They were originally called FIRST, but changed their name when they got so much bad publicity from crucifying the NR2003 modding community. Lot of people will never touch any of their products again because of that. I know I won't. Their treatment of the community, the community that made their games so huge, was despicable.

Support ISI and Simbin if you want sims from companies that actually respect (and in the case of ISI encourage) the modding community.

Can you explain what happened? All I heard was that Sierra shut down the online multiplayer functionality. That Papyrus released a bunch of modding tools before they were forced to shut down and that First/iRacing bought the code for Nascar 2003 from Sierra/Vivendi.

Jason Moyer · 05-06-2008, 12:27 AM

The sanctioning body is still called FIRST. For anyone who wants the full story...

Papyrus led by Dave Kaemmer develops Nascar 2003.

Kaemmer leaves Papyrus before N2003 ships because he's sick of only being able to work on NASCAR sims.

Sierra ships N2003.

A year-ish later Papyrus releases a patch for N2003 which unlocks 3 new physics models and, through Project Wildfire, releases track editing tools.

Project Wildfire release what are essentially the "official" versions of the cars using the 3 new physics models, Craftsman Trucks, Busch Grand National, and Papy Trans Am as well as some of the first/best tracks using the Sandbox track editor.

Sierra shuts down Papyrus after EA acquires the exclusive NASCAR license.
Dave Kaemmer, with help from John Henry (Red Sox owner) buy the source code to N2003 from Sierra in order to use it as a starting point for a new simracing service they want to develop (i.e. iRacing simulations/FIRST sanctioning body).

Several users crack the exe for N2003, and figure out how to make their own physics models using edited exe files (the physics are all contained in the game's executable, and not in configuration files like rFactor or something). Tim MacArthur (of the US Pits) and Redline Developments release mods using edited executables.

iRacing asks both groups to cease and desist distributing their mods (which violate N2003's EULA). Redline Developments pulls their GTP mod, and cooperates with iRacing who allow them to re-release it in an improved form later. For various reasons, things don't go as smoothly between iRacing and MacArthur, and iRacing takes legal action against him. They reach a settlement out of court. A year or so later another modder attempts to do the same thing and essentially gets the same treatment.

Anyway, despite what people who don't really know all the details will tell you, iRacing didn't try to stop people from modding N2003. You can add new tracks, car models, sounds, graphics, etc to the sim. What they had/have a problem with is editing of the executable. In the 3 years since most of this went down, I think most people have gotten over it.

Anyway, iRacing went beta today. Good times.

Bonedwarf · 05-06-2008, 06:08 AM

^^^^

What he said. And certainly nobody I still know from the community back then has forgiven them, nor will they pay a dime for anything they offer.

I also know someone who actually knows Kaemmer, and when all this happened, his response was "Doesn't surprise me. The guy may make good sims, but he's a dick."

That was a FRIEND of his who said that.

Jason Moyer · 05-06-2008, 08:28 AM

Most of the people I race with are old GPL/N2003 folks, mostly roadracers but we do ovals too, and tbh I don't think any of them ever really cared about the lawsuit stuff.

Jpotapoff · 05-06-2008, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

The sanctioning body is still called FIRST. For anyone who wants the full story...

Thanks. It's nice hearing a detailed account instead of "They did something bad and everyone hates them."

02-16-2006, 12:11 PM	#1 (permalink)
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 4,094	iRacing.com website/info/screens From the people who brought you Indycar Racing, Grand Prix Legends, and NASCAR Racing: http://www.iracing.com/ __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses. That was the '60s, when nobody knew. The good thing is, we know now. There's a lot more research and understanding. I'd like to say we were smart, but we didn't know what was going on. We were at the tail end of a generation that wasn't afraid to ingest anything. As research showed up, guys stopped." -- Tom House

04-20-2008, 01:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 4,094	Just bumping this since I know a few people here enjoyed Grand Prix Legends and Nascar 2003. There's a new interview with the VP of Marketing at iRacing with some info on the sim (which should be launching relatively soon): iRacing_interview_hi.wmv __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses. That was the '60s, when nobody knew. The good thing is, we know now. There's a lot more research and understanding. I'd like to say we were smart, but we didn't know what was going on. We were at the tail end of a generation that wasn't afraid to ingest anything. As research showed up, guys stopped." -- Tom House

05-06-2008, 12:27 AM	#5 (permalink)
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 4,094	The sanctioning body is still called FIRST. For anyone who wants the full story... Papyrus led by Dave Kaemmer develops Nascar 2003. Kaemmer leaves Papyrus before N2003 ships because he's sick of only being able to work on NASCAR sims. Sierra ships N2003. A year-ish later Papyrus releases a patch for N2003 which unlocks 3 new physics models and, through Project Wildfire, releases track editing tools. Project Wildfire release what are essentially the "official" versions of the cars using the 3 new physics models, Craftsman Trucks, Busch Grand National, and Papy Trans Am as well as some of the first/best tracks using the Sandbox track editor. Sierra shuts down Papyrus after EA acquires the exclusive NASCAR license. Dave Kaemmer, with help from John Henry (Red Sox owner) buy the source code to N2003 from Sierra in order to use it as a starting point for a new simracing service they want to develop (i.e. iRacing simulations/FIRST sanctioning body). Several users crack the exe for N2003, and figure out how to make their own physics models using edited exe files (the physics are all contained in the game's executable, and not in configuration files like rFactor or something). Tim MacArthur (of the US Pits) and Redline Developments release mods using edited executables. iRacing asks both groups to cease and desist distributing their mods (which violate N2003's EULA). Redline Developments pulls their GTP mod, and cooperates with iRacing who allow them to re-release it in an improved form later. For various reasons, things don't go as smoothly between iRacing and MacArthur, and iRacing takes legal action against him. They reach a settlement out of court. A year or so later another modder attempts to do the same thing and essentially gets the same treatment. Anyway, despite what people who don't really know all the details will tell you, iRacing didn't try to stop people from modding N2003. You can add new tracks, car models, sounds, graphics, etc to the sim. What they had/have a problem with is editing of the executable. In the 3 years since most of this went down, I think most people have gotten over it. Anyway, iRacing went beta today. Good times. __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses. That was the '60s, when nobody knew. The good thing is, we know now. There's a lot more research and understanding. I'd like to say we were smart, but we didn't know what was going on. We were at the tail end of a generation that wasn't afraid to ingest anything. As research showed up, guys stopped." -- Tom House

05-06-2008, 08:28 AM	#7 (permalink)
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 4,094	Most of the people I race with are old GPL/N2003 folks, mostly roadracers but we do ovals too, and tbh I don't think any of them ever really cared about the lawsuit stuff. __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses. That was the '60s, when nobody knew. The good thing is, we know now. There's a lot more research and understanding. I'd like to say we were smart, but we didn't know what was going on. We were at the tail end of a generation that wasn't afraid to ingest anything. As research showed up, guys stopped." -- Tom House

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04-20-2008, 05:29 PM	#3 (permalink)
Bonedwarf All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,293	They were originally called FIRST, but changed their name when they got so much bad publicity from crucifying the NR2003 modding community. Lot of people will never touch any of their products again because of that. I know I won't. Their treatment of the community, the community that made their games so huge, was despicable. Support ISI and Simbin if you want sims from companies that actually respect (and in the case of ISI encourage) the modding community.

05-06-2008, 06:08 AM	#6 (permalink)
Bonedwarf All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,293	^^^^ What he said. And certainly nobody I still know from the community back then has forgiven them, nor will they pay a dime for anything they offer. I also know someone who actually knows Kaemmer, and when all this happened, his response was "Doesn't surprise me. The guy may make good sims, but he's a dick." That was a FRIEND of his who said that.