[Andreas Raht]

Hi everyone,

One of our biggest struggles here lies in effectively moderating our "Off Topic" forums. OT requires far and away the most moderator effort, and generates the most contentious threads, and 99% of all reported threads. It also contains many threads that can give new visitors to our forums a bad impression. As a result, we are making some changes to the way the Off Topic forum works.

There are two main changes:

OT Changing to "Opt-in"
First, we are turning OT into a "public user group" that by default will be invisible to new registered users. This means that by default, users will not see the OT forum anywhere. This includes the forum list, the "new posts" list, and search results. However, users can easily "opt in" to OT by selecting the group in his or her User Profile screen ("User CP").

OT Debate Subforum
We will also be adding a subforum within OT, expressly for controversial political and religious debates. The rules for that subforum are the same as they are for the actual OT forum. However, it will allow us to move the more contentious debates out of the main OT area where most users just do not want to see them.

So, what happens next?
Be aware that OT will soon become invisible for everyone. If you wish to see the OT forum, just open your User CP and join the user group!

We will also update the forum software again, so it's possible that the forum is not available for a few hours this week.

About signatures/avatars
We are also updating our forum rules to prohibit the use of political or religious statements in your signature or avatars. (This includes statements supporting your faith.) We spend a large amount of time attempting to adjudicate arguments about political or religious statements that are in sigs or avatars. Of course, everyone is entitled to their own views on such things. We're just saying that we can't support the use of sigs and avatars as a medium for sharing these beliefs, because it causes too many administrative problems that we don't have the resources to handle, and at the end of the day, this is a sports forum.

Offenders who don't respond to requests to change their avatar or sig will have their rights to use signatures and avatars taken away.

We want this forum to be similar to a virtual sports bar. You can meet people here with similar hobbies, and talk with them about whatever you want. If you don't want to talk about the subject any longer, you just go to another table, meet other friends and talk about other things. The above rule changes are designed to make our forums friendlier for new users and those who don't come here to talk politics or religion, while also preserving the ability for those folks to continue to use our forums.

We hope you all understand and help us support the spirit of these changes.

Thank you!

OOTP Developments Team & OOTP Forum Moderators

[eriqjaffe]

Might I suggest calling the "Debate" forum the "Train Wreck" forum? It'd probably be more accurate that way.

[Eckstein 4 Prez]

May I suggest that you put a sticky in this forum, Talk Sports, and the OOTP General Discussions forum telling people how to access Off Topic? It might cut down on people starting off topic threads in those fora.

[stevebydac]

There was no perfect answer to this situation Andreas. But it seems that you have chosen a good compromise that should help matters. Thank you for considering all sides.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by eriqjaffe

Might I suggest calling the "Debate" forum the "Train Wreck" forum? It'd probably be more accurate that way.

Another forum I go to has a subforum called "Petty Bickering" where the worst of the worst threads are moved. That would be a good name for "Debate".

[lethal liberal]

Bravo Andreas! In my opinion this needs to stay a sports and gaming forum. If we want to argue lets argue about who could win Ali or Tyson,27 Yankees or 61 Yankees..not the political and religious garbage that makes friends enemies. If you did away with the OT forum it would not hurt my feelings.

[phenom]

FWIW, I think Tyson would beat Ali. That Parkinson's would really slow him down, I think.

[Syd Thrift]

Yeah, but Tyson has a gut now lol.

[remangiii]

This thread needs to be moved to OT. +1

[The Wolf]

+1

[bababui]

Originally Posted by lethal liberal

Bravo Andreas! In my opinion this needs to stay a sports and gaming forum. If we want to argue lets argue about who could win Ali or Tyson,27 Yankees or 61 Yankees..not the political and religious garbage that makes friends enemies. If you did away with the OT forum it would not hurt my feelings.

Arguing sport is just as contentious as arguing religion or politics. When was the last time you saw a riot inside a church or a legislative body?

[Syd Thrift]

I went to several churches throughout my youth and early adulthood and not once do I remember anybody arguing about religion in any of them.

[Dargone]

Originally Posted by bababui

Arguing sport is just as contentious as arguing religion or politics. When was the last time you saw a riot inside a church or a legislative body?

SKorean lawmakers brawl over US free trade pact - Yahoo! News



While arguing sports can be very contentious, in my opinion, it doesn't compare to religion/politics. People are willing to die for their beliefs in these two areas, yet even the most hardcore Yankee fan isn't going to kill himself/herself if they don't win the pennant. Obviously, there have been sports related deaths/riots (many incidents regarding football in South America spring to mind) but I don't feel it's in the same league (pun intended). YMMV, as always.

Having said that, I'm glad that there will be a separate sub-forum. Seems a win win to me.

[Hellion9]

Originally Posted by Dargone

SKorean lawmakers brawl over US free trade pact - Yahoo! News



While arguing sports can be very contentious, in my opinion, it doesn't compare to religion/politics. People are willing to die for their beliefs in these two areas, yet even the most hardcore Yankee fan isn't going to kill himself/herself if they don't win the pennant. Obviously, there have been sports related deaths/riots (many incidents regarding football in South America spring to mind) but I don't feel it's in the same league (pun intended). YMMV, as always.

Having said that, I'm glad that there will be a separate sub-forum. Seems a win win to me.

Die, perhaps not, but kill, certainly. Sports can be as contentious as anything. Anything can be as contentious as anything so to imply that only these two subjects are beyond the capacity of people to speak reasonably is to assume that people are somehow reasonable. Which we ain't. At least, I'm not.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by Dargone

SKorean lawmakers brawl over US free trade pact - Yahoo! News



While arguing sports can be very contentious, in my opinion, it doesn't compare to religion/politics. People are willing to die for their beliefs in these two areas, yet even the most hardcore Yankee fan isn't going to kill himself/herself if they don't win the pennant. Obviously, there have been sports related deaths/riots (many incidents regarding football in South America spring to mind) but I don't feel it's in the same league (pun intended). YMMV, as always.

Having said that, I'm glad that there will be a separate sub-forum. Seems a win win to me.

Within the last month (IIRC), there was a man who shot another over a sporting argument. Think it was on the East coast, but don't remember the details.

[RoteLaterne]

Hello!

I am new to this forum.
Please tell me, after all these issues about avatars,
can I upload my very own image or do I have to choose one from ootp?

In my UserCP area I am not able to do both of this.

Please let me know.

[kq76]

It looks like you figured it out. As long as you don't use something offensive in some way, you should be good.