[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by thbroman

All right, dangit, who the heck is "CONN CHRIS"?
I can't recall ever seeing that forum name before, and yet here you are, with 11,000+ posts.
I hate it when people change their monickers . . . . *grumble*

Oh he's not new. he just hid in the basement a lot.

[thbroman]

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

Oh he's not new. he just hid in the basement a lot.

For 11,000 posts??
Guess that shows how observant I've been these past seven years!

[Cooleyvol]

I don't recall his username changing anytime recent (if ever). His total is padded from Boxing posts that you most likely never see.

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by thbroman

For 11,000 posts??
Guess that shows how observant I've been these past seven years!

My post count was embarrassingly high anyway, but well over half of it (I believe) came from this forum:

TBCB Photos - OOTP Developments Forums

There are tens of thousands of boxing photos in there. I had a huge collection myself and those that had been posted on the TBCB board were dis-organized and scattered. Several of us decided to clean up and organize the mess. The project turned into a white whale and only a few people were dumb enough to play Ahab to the bitter end. I'm one of those.

[bosunmate]

Originally Posted by thbroman

All right, dangit, who the heck is "CONN CHRIS"?
I can't recall ever seeing that forum name before, and yet here you are, with 11,000+ posts.
I hate it when people change their monickers . . . . *grumble*

Yea me too what is going on around here, 98 yanks is now Deja Bru. This place is going to the dogs.. But seriously a good suggestion especially with release day approaching and hopefully many new users..

[BruceM]

Originally Posted by thbroman

For 11,000 posts??
Guess that shows how observant I've been these past seven years!

Hmmm - you said it, not me - How observant? Well, it's over 21,000 not just 11,000.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

We have added a new "warnable offense" to our forum rules, as follows:

- Making forum members asking questions feel unwelcome through sarcastic or unnecessary commentary will not be tollerated and will be considered a warnable offense.

Unless the n00bs are held to the same standard as everyone else, this is discrimination and mistreatment of existing members.

N00bs who act like people get treated like this:

Running OOTP 10 on a 1024x600 netbook

N00bs who come in making arrogant demands or behaving badly in other ways get treated the same way that existing members who behave that way get treated.

Creating a preferential class is inherently wrong and discriminatory, and will also encourage all manner of bad behavior in N00bs, because they will have read this and feel entitled and protected accordingly. This is the worst idea I have ever seen on this forum, and I have been here since there first was an OOTP forum, because it will directly and positively encourage bad behavior.

Now we have Political Correctness, and a protected class who can behave badly at will. Worst idea ever.

[BruceM]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Unless the n00bs are held to the same standard as everyone else, this is discrimination and mistreatment of existing members.

N00bs who act like people get treated like this:

Running OOTP 10 on a 1024x600 netbook

N00bs who come in making arrogant demands or behaving badly in other ways get treated the same way that existing members who behave that way get treated.

Creating a preferential class is inherently wrong and discriminatory, and will also encourage all manner of bad behavior in N00bs, because they will have read this and feel entitled and protected accordingly. This is the worst idea I have ever seen on this forum, and I have been here since there first was an OOTP forum, because it will directly and positively encourage bad behavior.

Now we have Political Correctness, and a protected class who can behave badly at will. Worst idea ever.

Your concerns have already been addressed and responded to.

See page two of this thread, posts #2 & 3.

[thbroman]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

My post count was embarrassingly high anyway, but well over half of it (I believe) came from this forum:

TBCB Photos - OOTP Developments Forums

There are tens of thousands of boxing photos in there. I had a huge collection myself and those that had been posted on the TBCB board were dis-organized and scattered. Several of us decided to clean up and organize the mess. The project turned into a white whale and only a few people were dumb enough to play Ahab to the bitter end. I'm one of those.

Hey, thanks for the explanation! I never owned the boxing game, and so never visited the forum. And in any case, as BruceM said, how observant can I be when I misread your post count? (Actually, I mistyped it, but there you go. . . .)
I know all too well about hopeless quests.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by BruceM

Your concerns have already been addressed and responded to.

They most certainly have not.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by opieandy

Posting "when it's tested and ready" in response to a release date question is pitiful.

That's been the OOTP official standard response from official spokesmen to that question for years and years. No one is going to get into any trouble here for repeating it unless the mods have finally lost it completely.

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

They most certainly have not.

How so?

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Creating a preferential class is inherently wrong and discriminatory, and will also encourage all manner of bad behavior in N00bs, because they will have read this and feel entitled and protected accordingly. This is the worst idea I have ever seen on this forum, and I have been here since there first was an OOTP forum, because it will directly and positively encourage bad behavior.

Originally Posted by Rule

Making forum members asking questions feel unwelcome through sarcastic or unnecessary commentary will not be tollerated and will be considered a warnable offense.

MD, can you point out where in the rule it says N00b? The rule applies to everyone with respect to everyone.

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by BruceM

See page two of this thread, posts #2 & 3.

I'm not addressing this to BruceM, but to the forum members at large, since I've seen this in another current thread:

Posts have numbers attached to them. When referencing posts, please mention the post number, not the page, and most particularly not the position on a page.

Why? Because there are many possible settings for number of posts per page. Mine is set to 50, which means this thread is still on the first page, and BruceM is refering me to a page that doesn't exist. I have no way of knowing how many posts are on one of BruceM's (or knockahoma's, or RonCo's) pages, so I have no idea which posts he's trying to bring to my attention.

On the other hand, the post numbers are universal, so if I refer someone to Post 33, he'll go to the same post I'm looking at. Simple and elegant.

Originally Posted by Tony M

MD, can you point out where in the rule it says N00b? The rule applies to everyone with respect to everyone.

The rule does not, but the post containing the rule has two titles saying that the thread originator is talking specifically about how to treat NEW members, and within the body of the text he writes:
"…we'd like to make a public request to the veterans of the forum to treat newcomers with respect. We're having all too many cases where new forum members feel attacked or belittled by aggressive forum vets."
And later, "…we really can't afford to have new forum members getting a bad impression of OOTP because they were heckled on our forums for failing to use the search engine or asking a question deemed unimportant by forum vets."

Those tend to put an impression in at least this reader's mind that new members ARE being singled out as a protected class. On the other hand, "So, effective immediately, we are asking ALL [emphasis added] forum members to follow that old adage, 'If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.'" seems to make clear that, while the impetus for the new rule is to protect new members, this 'no hunting' zone applies to even the oldest crustacean in the forest.

[BruceM]

Originally Posted by Curtis

I'm not addressing this to BruceM, but to the forum members at large, since I've seen this in another current thread:

Posts have numbers attached to them. When referencing posts, please mention the post number, not the page, and most particularly not the position on a page.

Why? Because there are many possible settings for number of posts per page. Mine is set to 50, which means this thread is still on the first page, and BruceM is refering me to a page that doesn't exist. I have no way of knowing how many posts are on one of BruceM's (or knockahoma's, or RonCo's) pages, so I have no idea which posts he's trying to bring to my attention.

On the other hand, the post numbers are universal, so if I refer someone to Post 33, he'll go to the same post I'm looking at. Simple and elegant.



The rule does not, but the post containing the rule has two titles saying that the thread originator is talking specifically about how to treat NEW members, and within the body of the text he writes:
"…we'd like to make a public request to the veterans of the forum to treat newcomers with respect. We're having all too many cases where new forum members feel attacked or belittled by aggressive forum vets."
And later, "…we really can't afford to have new forum members getting a bad impression of OOTP because they were heckled on our forums for failing to use the search engine or asking a question deemed unimportant by forum vets."

These tend to put an impression in readers' minds that new members ARE being singled out as a protected class. On the other hand, "So, effective immediately, we are asking ALL [emphasis added] forum members to follow that old adage, 'If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.'" seems to make clear that, while the impetus for the new rule is to protect new members, this 'no hunting' zone applies to even the oldest crustacean in the forest.

Point taken on your part one - will do in the future. Thanks for pointing that out.


I don't get that impression at all, and maybe some other readers don't either. So your universal use of readers is wrong. Refer to yourself since that's the only one you can truely speak for.

I don't see a lot of senior members speaking down to each other, but I do see senior members speaking down to new members. I think the rule is justified. I see it as they are trying to do something positive to improve the forum, not single anyone out as protected. If you see it that way, fine, that's your perception of it.

Nitpicking at the wording isn't productive. Anyone who reads the rule hopefully will get the gist of its meaning - be nice; period. I don't think that's asking too much at all.

Instead of trying to turn this into something it's not - namely saying it shows preferential treatment, try to apply the rule in general - be nice to all forum members, whether you agree with them or not. I'm guilty of that myself in the past and have been making a concerted effort to improve. I hope others will follow along the same path.

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by Curtis

I'm not addressing this to BruceM, but to the forum members at large, since I've seen this in another current thread:

Posts have numbers attached to them. When referencing posts, please mention the post number, not the page, and most particularly not the position on a page.

Why? Because there are many possible settings for number of posts per page. Mine is set to 50, which means this thread is still on the first page, and BruceM is refering me to a page that doesn't exist. I have no way of knowing how many posts are on one of BruceM's (or knockahoma's, or RonCo's) pages, so I have no idea which posts he's trying to bring to my attention.

On the other hand, the post numbers are universal, so if I refer someone to Post 33, he'll go to the same post I'm looking at. Simple and elegant.

Good point... i forget about this at times.

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Unless the n00bs are held to the same standard as everyone else, this is discrimination and mistreatment of existing members.

N00bs who act like people get treated like this:

Running OOTP 10 on a 1024x600 netbook

N00bs who come in making arrogant demands or behaving badly in other ways get treated the same way that existing members who behave that way get treated.

Creating a preferential class is inherently wrong and discriminatory, and will also encourage all manner of bad behavior in N00bs, because they will have read this and feel entitled and protected accordingly. This is the worst idea I have ever seen on this forum, and I have been here since there first was an OOTP forum, because it will directly and positively encourage bad behavior.

Now we have Political Correctness, and a protected class who can behave badly at will. Worst idea ever.

If a newcomer breaks a posting rule and the moderators are notified or see it the issue will be dealt with. This thread addresses the situation where newcomers are treated quite rudely by a forum vet with no other apparent rule broken. It leaves a poor impression which OOTP wishes to avoid.

This creates no protected class; it merely addresses an issue that is important to the long-time community (based on the volume of post reporting that we have seen) and is also important to OOTP.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by bosunmate

Yea me too what is going on around here, 98 yanks is now Deja Bru. This place is going to the dogs..

Rowf! Bow wow wow! Grrrrr. (No wait, that last one is mgom's.)

Originally Posted by Sweed

"When it's tested and ready" actually years ago was the standard response from Steve Kuffrey, OOTP employee, when asked about release of either full version of newest OOTP or any subsequent patches.

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

That's been the OOTP official standard response from official spokesmen to that question for years and years. No one is going to get into any trouble here for repeating it unless the mods have finally lost it completely.

Yes, technically correct. The trouble is, noobs don't know that history and standard practice and are liable to take it as curt dismissal. I'm not saying to bend over backwards for them, but unless they are acting ornery, we should go out of our way to welcome them for the sake of OOTP (their game, not necessarily their profits, but they are correlated!).

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

That's been the OOTP official standard response from official spokesmen to that question for years and years. No one is going to get into any trouble here for repeating it unless the mods have finally lost it completely.

This I agree with. What would be the alternative answer to that question? Since nobody but Markus knows, maybe just ignoring it and letting it fall of the page would seem less pitiful?

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by silvam14

This I agree with. What would be the alternative answer to that question? Since nobody but Markus knows, maybe just ignoring it and letting it fall of the page would seem less pitiful?

Silvam, you will change your opinion when you read my post directly above, having been entered a split-second before yours! Too late to change your errant post, alas.