[CONN CHRIS]

Treatment of New Forum Members
We encourage all new forum members to take advantage of the forum search capabilities to look for answers to any questions they might have. The New to the Game forum is a great place, too, for newcomers to get help.

That said, we'd like to make a public request to the veterans of the forum to treat newcomers with respect. We're having all too many cases where new forum members feel attacked or belittled by aggressive forum vets. In many cases, these veterans have similar goals to ours - teach new forum members to use the tools available rather than post questions that have been asked and answered many times. Too often, these goals are being expressed in a ridiculing manner.

At any time, but especialy in these tough economic times, every sale is precious to OOTP, and we really can't afford to have new forum members getting a bad impression of OOTP because they were heckled on our forums for failing to use the search engine or asking a question deemed unimportant by forum vets. People take these experiences to other places and share them, and although it's coming from other OOTP customers and not from OOTP itself, it affects how people perceive OOTP and our community.

So, effective immediately, we are asking all forum members to follow that old adage, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all." We have added a new "warnable offense" to our forum rules, as follows:

- Making forum members asking questions feel unwelcome through sarcastic or unnecessary commentary will not be tollerated and will be considered a warnable offense.

[silvam14]

For the record, telling someone to use the forum search feature here is probably one of the biggest forms of noob abuse. The search feature is terrible and has never worked for me the way I want it.

I search for "Box Score utility" and I get 10 threads from OT about 'Merica is bad

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by silvam14

For the record, telling someone to use the forum search feature here is probably one of the biggest forms of noob abuse. The search feature is terrible and has never worked for me the way I want it.

I search for "Box Score utility" and I get 10 threads from OT about 'Merica is bad

You could always use the forum filter in the search screen to choose "OOTP 9" and child sub-forums. I'm just going to check it, but I'm sure that does work as it should. Why your search should bring up those type of threads is odd (I can't figure out what sort of post would use the words box, score and utility in an anti-US post)

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by Tony M

You could always use the forum filter in the search screen to choose "OOTP 9" and child sub-forums. I'm just going to check it, but I'm sure that does work as it should. Why your search should bring up those type of threads is odd (I can't figure out what sort of post would use the words box, score and utility in an anti-US post)

Well, the example I used was hyperbole, but, like I said, I really have never had much luck with the forum search. I haven't used it recently, but I'm certain I'm not the only one who has had issues

[canadiancreed]

I've found the search to be better then silvan's experience but I agree that it is hit or miss somedays (hell some days I wonder just what the hamster that's powering the search engine has been drinking.)

That being said having a walkthrough of the search function should be a mandatory thing for new users on forums in general. This board IMO doesn't have the issue of questions asked repeatedly as some that I frequent, but no sense in not doing some preventative actions to keep it that way and even improve upon.

And for the OP, well said. Kudos to you and the team.

[BruceM]

Well done - and just to mention I've never had problems using the search function. I do believe though you have to be very specific and careful with what words you use.

[Dargone]

Well said. There is absolutely no reason to be rude to someone that is new to the game. This issue is always my biggest gripe with new message boards that I join. Just because some of us have been here 7+ years does not mean we can be snobs to new members. Help them out or don't post. It's that simple.

Also, just so we are clear, I hate you all. K thnk bye.














































Except Bobbuttons

[Bishop]

Originally Posted by silvam14

Well, the example I used was hyperbole, but, like I said, I really have never had much luck with the forum search. I haven't used it recently, but I'm certain I'm not the only one who has had issues

Don't feel alone. Most forums I use, the search function is often MUCH less than helpful.

[Bishop]

Originally Posted by Dargone

Also, just so we are clear, I hate you all. K thnk bye.

Just so we are clear, I don't hate your avatar!

[AirmenSmith]

I think the big question is how in the hell do you have over 21,000 post, Conn Chris?

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by AirmenSmith

I think the big question is how in the hell do you have over 21,000 post, Conn Chris?

More than half were from posting and moving all the photos in/to the TBCB photos form back when we organized the previous mess.

[brewertoby]

Kelric, Curtis, Satchel, BruceM, Baseballman...These are just a few of the veterans who have had remarkable patience with me in answering questions that they've probably fielded 1000 times. There are several others as well. Usually when threads unravel into disrespect, its the noob that asked in such a manner as to almost deserve it. While I know that OOTP can't afford to lose customers, I hope that the "warnable offense" is used sparingly and that the circumstances are examined closely before using such a tool. I'd hate to lose a valuable vet that I can learn from just because another noob decided to come to the forum with a chip on his shoulder.

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by brewertoby

Kelric, Curtis, Satchel, BruceM, Baseballman...These are just a few of the veterans who have had remarkable patience with me in answering questions that they've probably fielded 1000 times. There are several others as well. Usually when threads unravel into disrespect, its the noob that asked in such a manner as to almost deserve it. While I know that OOTP can't afford to lose customers, I hope that the "warnable offense" is used sparingly and that the circumstances are examined closely before using such a tool. I'd hate to lose a valuable vet that I can learn from just because another noob decided to come to the forum with a chip on his shoulder.

Good thoughts. Most warnings are handed out rather sparringly so I'd assume the same here. Interestingly, it has been other forum vets not new folks reporting this kind of behavior in spades of late that promtped this. That fits well with your experience, most 'vets' looking out for and being patient with new comers as it should be.

Originally Posted by Dargone

Help them out or don't post. It's that simple.

Also well said.

[rasnell]

Conn Chris, your timing on this is very good. I've noticed the tone going down the tubes -- seems like just a few of the same offenders who just struggle with courtesy or don't realize how harsh the written word is versus spoken sarcasm.

Really important for everyone to consider this as we get closer to release of a new version.

It's also easy to get lost in the bugs and suggestions for improvement, without noting how spectacular the overall game has been for several years. I have had no hobby or single piece of software that ever gave me so many hours of fun.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Treatment of New Forum Members
We encourage all new forum members to take advantage of the forum search capabilities to look for answers to any questions they might have. The New to the Game forum is a great place, too, for newcomers to get help.

That said, we'd like to make a public request to the veterans of the forum to treat newcomers with respect. We're having all too many cases where new forum members feel attacked or belittled by aggressive forum vets. In many cases, these veterans have similar goals to ours - teach new forum members to use the tools available rather than post questions that have been asked and answered many times. Too often, these goals are being expressed in a ridiculing manner.

At any time, but especialy in these tough economic times, every sale is precious to OOTP, and we really can't afford to have new forum members getting a bad impression of OOTP because they were heckled on our forums for failing to use the search engine or asking a question deemed unimportant by forum vets. People take these experiences to other places and share them, and although it's coming from other OOTP customers and not from OOTP itself, it affects how people perceive OOTP and our community.

So, effective immediately, we are asking all forum members to follow that old adage, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all." We have added a new "warnable offense" to our forum rules, as follows:

- Making forum members asking questions feel unwelcome through sarcastic or unnecessary commentary will not be tollerated and will be considered a warnable offense.

Hear, hear. I've said it over and over again: Noobs (that is, NEW CUSTOMERS) drive the economic engine that keeps improving OOTPB so people who take pleasure, or seek to boost their reputations, by unfairly dumping on noobs are short-sighted (or perhaps not even true OOTPB fans).

On the other hand, Search (particularly Advanced Search) is a mighty good tool if used properly and can save many a noob the exasperation of waiting hours and days for an answer to his question. And noobs themselves should be polite, respectful, and PATIENT.

[ashantewarrier]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Treatment of New Forum Members
We encourage all new forum members to take advantage of the forum search capabilities to look for answers to any questions they might have. The New to the Game forum is a great place, too, for newcomers to get help.

That said, we'd like to make a public request to the veterans of the forum to treat newcomers with respect. We're having all too many cases where new forum members feel attacked or belittled by aggressive forum vets. In many cases, these veterans have similar goals to ours - teach new forum members to use the tools available rather than post questions that have been asked and answered many times. Too often, these goals are being expressed in a ridiculing manner.

At any time, but especialy in these tough economic times, every sale is precious to OOTP, and we really can't afford to have new forum members getting a bad impression of OOTP because they were heckled on our forums for failing to use the search engine or asking a question deemed unimportant by forum vets. People take these experiences to other places and share them, and although it's coming from other OOTP customers and not from OOTP itself, it affects how people perceive OOTP and our community.

So, effective immediately, we are asking all forum members to follow that old adage, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all." We have added a new "warnable offense" to our forum rules, as follows:

- Making forum members asking questions feel unwelcome through sarcastic or unnecessary commentary will not be tollerated and will be considered a warnable offense.

Good policy. I for one get annoyed when I see newbies get a hard time from forum vets, especially when asking a question. "Go read the manual, or use the search forum." is really an unnecessary response.

[opieandy]

Excellent post, Chris. A number of the veteran posters here are offensive and boorish. Posting "when it's tested and ready" in response to a release date question is pitiful. The company understands that folks are eager for its product and want to know when to expect it, but some veterans with a superiority complex feel customers should just be at the company's whim. This attitude is ridiculous and immature. It's entirely reasonable for customers to want to know when to expect a product. As one example, there are many like me whose interest in baseball sims peaks at the start of baseball season and wanes thereafter. Knowing the game will be released in early May helps me decide whether to preorder. I may want to deploy my funds elsewhere, rather than being strung along for perpetuity until the nebulous date "when it's tested and ready" finally arrives. No company would ever reply "when it's tested and ready". I wonder why these vets feel they are being an effective ambassador for the company? Or do they even care?

[PadresFan]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Treatment of New Forum Members
So, effective immediately, we are asking all forum members to follow that old adage, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all." We have added a new "warnable offense" to our forum rules, as follows:

- Making forum members asking questions feel unwelcome through sarcastic or unnecessary commentary will not be tollerated and will be considered a warnable offense.

Best post on these boards I've seen in a while.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by opieandy

Excellent post, Chris. A number of the veteran posters here are offensive and boorish. Posting "when it's tested and ready" in response to a release date question is pitiful. The company understands that folks are eager for its product and want to know when to expect it, but some veterans with a superiority complex feel customers should just be at the company's whim. This attitude is ridiculous and immature. It's entirely reasonable for customers to want to know when to expect a product. As one example, there are many like me whose interest in baseball sims peaks at the start of baseball season and wanes thereafter. Knowing the game will be released in early May helps me decide whether to preorder. I may want to deploy my funds elsewhere, rather than being strung along for perpetuity until the nebulous date "when it's tested and ready" finally arrives. No company would ever reply "when it's tested and ready". I wonder why these vets feel they are being an effective ambassador for the company? Or do they even care?

"When it's tested and ready" actually years ago was the standard response from Steve Kuffrey, OOTP employee, when asked about release of either full version of newest OOTP or any subsequent patches. Not saying someone wasn't being nasty while using the phrase but you will want to take it in the context of their post and the thread. It is an old inside joke so if followed with a smile or if not starting or ending a nasty post it was probably meant in jest. So, the company did use the tested and ready line itself, sometimes in fun and sometimes to someone that badgered the board when the question had already been answered with as much accuracy as possible, ie "spring 20XX".

This is a good topic though started by Chris and is much overdue. There are certainly some folks here that need to be reigned in, no different than most boards I visit on the net. Good to see OOTP try to get a handle on the problem.

[thbroman]

All right, dangit, who the heck is "CONN CHRIS"?
I can't recall ever seeing that forum name before, and yet here you are, with 11,000+ posts.
I hate it when people change their monickers . . . . *grumble*