ITP: My first (and maybe last) impressions

Mikecouil · 12-21-2003, 12:06 PM

I'm a huge fan of the OOTP series, having purchased every single one. After having OOTP2 for a while I had some problems that I can't even remember and someone from OOTP mailed me TWO full version OOTP2 disks as a way of saying sorry and thank you. It meant a lot and drew me to other independent developers. I'd say the VASTY majority of my computer software purchases, gaming AND applications, now come from independent companies.

With all that said......I have very little good to say about this product at all.

In my opinion, it is not very deep at all, you have very little control on what goes on in your career, the AI is attrocious (released in AAA while rated as one of the top 10 prospects in baseball AND hitting .250 with 20 SB's as the lead off man,read numerous other dumb moves), and the game runs slow on my machine.

I have Windows XP on a 1.2 GHZ AMD Athlon with 192 MB of Ram. This system runs OOTP5 pretty decently but sims aren't the fastest. After purchasing Inside The park and seeing how slow it simmed, I went out and bought a 256 MB stick of Ram and yanked my 64 MB piece of crap stick, giving me 384 MB of Ram and a 1.2 GHZ processor. I ran NOTHING else while playing. The Ram helped a little bit but things just seem way to slow to me.

I played 2 careers:

My first career I opted as a high school right handed outfielder with all 5 tools. I was picked in the bottom of the first round and spent 3 seasons in the minors. During that time I was traded once (for VERY little) and cut. After being cut I was picked up not even a week later and made it to the big leagues. My team sucked but I grew better. My stats were in the 60's for contact and power and 50's in gaps and eye, as well as solid defense and 60's running. What should have been a major strength of the game, which was the contract negotiations, turned out to be a MAJOR let down. It's basically a take it or leave it kind of thing. I was hoping for trade clauses, player and/or club options, incentives, injury insurance stuff. I suffered through 4 VERY BORING major league seasons until I hit free agency, figuring that maybe it would get better. I received 3 offers, all in the 4 million per year range (sorry ass Toronto wanted to give me 2.5 mil a year). I contacted EVERY other club, none of whom was interested. But then all of a sudden they all came nocking one after another and my offers approached 5 mil a year. Again no real negotiating, just take it or leave it.

I should note that I visited the bar twice. Once I got drunk and had a hang over the next day. The other time I went in, saw that it was kind of meaningless, and left. My favorite part of the game is the equipment. I like the BBay auctions and the opportunity to get super powered equipment to help aid you.

My rookie card value was somewhere in the 400's.

I guess I got what I paid for....kind of. It occupied me for about 3 hours (as I kept going further and further hoping something would get better). It ran on my system, and I didn't have to battle the mall crowds to get the game I was considering when I received the ITP announcement email. I just really expected a mind blowing experience, like all of the OOTP games have been. This was SUCH a huge let down. I'm sure it required a lot of work and effort to make this game, but it just doesn't feel like a lot went in to it. It plays as if someone took 4/5 of the options out of OOTP and renamed a player after you. You then get to control ONLY that player (and not very well), and you get to follow him to the sporting good store and the bar after the game. It was a great concept though. If I hadn't forked over the 20 bucks my curiosity would have been going for weeks.

Mike

Kaitiaki · 12-21-2003, 12:32 PM

While I agree with most of what you said, I'd caution you against throwing in the towel too soon. Yes, the game is far too shallow and the AI needs serious work. At least on the former front, Markus has already promised updates and new features.

I don't mean to suggest that such promises, even fulfilled, excuse releasing a shallow, dull game, but given your obvious appreciation for Markus/OOTPDevelopment's other work, I think it would be a shame to see you give up on ITP before giving Markus a chance to do what he does best: improve his games with each update and version.

BMW · 12-21-2003, 12:42 PM

I can't disagree with much of what you said. I am enjoying the game. However, I wonder how long it will hold my interest.

I am hoping it's the start of a good series of games.

However, interaction in the game will be what ultimately saves or kills the series. I already had the option to rename a player in OOTP after myself, and follow his career. Watch him play in all-star games, win awards, championships, maybe be elected to the Hall of Fame.

All those aspects of the game should be the backdrop of ITP, but sometimes I feel that most of what I'm doing in the game is simming huge chunks at a time to get to what is enjoyable: negotiating contracts, choosing teams, occasionally making a purchase.

I had mentioned seeking training from your coaches (in a baseball park setting rather than a bar setting) to increase your skills as a possibility for improvement. Someone offered that that was what was happening behind the scenes when your skills improved during the year.

It's a valid point, but this is a game where you're supposed to be controling that very aspect of your player. My player can progress from a 10 contact rating at the start of the game to 60 a few years later with little to no effort or input from me.

Some of the best aspects of the game include being able to play on the field, and choose what you do in your at bats. Also, negotiating contracts is pretty good, although adding more depth to that would be very rewarding for all the players.

Disappointing aspects of the game start with the weight room. For the most part, I set what I want to do when I'm 20, and alter perhaps two exercises every five years.

BBay doesn't really excite me, since the price of equipment has no realistic monetary basis and I can never tell if something on the system is being sold for a great price.

The bar seems to offer the most detailed interaction in the game, but as many have said, you don't really have to use it at all to play the game. It seems a shame that the bar seems to squeeze in too much, obviously looking to encompass silly (but not uninteresting) drinking games AND functions that should be part of a clubhouse, like meeting the owner and manager.

I say the game should push forward, and hopefully the programming staff does have the time to include the greater interactivity that ITP deserves.

sporr · 12-21-2003, 03:50 PM

Keep in mind that when OOTP1 came out there were many similar concerns about depth, etc. But if you look at the difference between OOTP5 and OOTP1, then you can see the level of improvement that will surely happen with the ITP series.

cibl commish · 12-21-2003, 04:06 PM

I think this will be a great series. No game ever has everything that everyone wants in the first release. This game though has the potential to be awesome, and it is very good in my opinion.

BasicGuy · 12-21-2003, 04:51 PM

I'm torn here.....I want Markus to improve this game by adding features and fixing bugs through patches.....BUT I don't want OOTP 6 to suffer becuase of It.

As It stands now I would assume anytime spent working on this game takes away time from working on OOTP 6 and I have high hopes for this years version.

Mikecouil · 12-21-2003, 05:15 PM

I dont believe you can compare OOTP 1 with ITP 1. OOTP 1 was hands down the best baseball simulation on the market for it's time. It was not a pioneer in the genre but took others good ideas and added great ideas to make an outstanding game. Although I saw things I liked and didn't like about OOTP, it was one of the best games I had ever played.

It's a nock on OOTP to even compare the two.

Kaitiaki · 12-21-2003, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mikecouil
I dont believe you can compare OOTP 1 with ITP 1.

Umm... same genre. Same developer. Same nomenclature. And we can't compare them?

The comparisons are inevitable, and plentiful. Most important among them the history of support and post-release improvement demonstrated by Markus.

And as for OOTP1 being "hands down the best baseball simulation on the market for it's time", and hence not being comparable to ITP1... well, technically, ITP is "hands down the best baseball [player] simulation on the market for it's time".

It's hard to lose when you're the only one in the race.

Beach Boy · 12-21-2003, 05:40 PM

I have to reluctantly agree with the first poster. Reluctantly because I like OOTP so much.

When I first heard about ITP last year (or was it earlier this year?), it sounded like a shallow idea. I wasn't interested. But when I got the email announcement two days ago and saw the screen shots, I was intrigued. I couldn't resist. I had to try it.

And so far it's been... OK. Just OK.

After setting up my first player (a slick-fielding, contact-hitting 3B) and exploring the "neighborhood," I played out a couple of games. I stopped at the bar a few times, but that didn't do much. When I realized I could only control my own player, and not very well at that, I switched to simming long swaths of the season and watching my batting average go up and down.

As the seasons went by and I bought new bats and gloves and shoes, I got better. I won a few Gold Glove awards. My BA stayed miserable. I negotiated my first contract, only to discover that I had settled for too little money for too long a contract. Now I'm simming entire seasons just to get out of my 5-year contract and see what happens next.

In other words: There's not much left for me to do. I've maxxed out on my talents. Eventually I'll become a free agent and try to get a new contract from a new team. But judging from previous posts, I don't guess that will be the great experience I've been hoping for.

Ultimately, I'll sim out the rest of my career and then... what? I can't help my team much during pennant runs. I'm not a Hall of Famer. Ultimately, I guess, I'll just watch the sim engine finish my career to see what my final stats are.

I'm strangely compelled to keep returning to the computer to watch the sim run. There is an odd fascination to watching my team's fortunes go up and down, and my OBP go up and down, but I don't feel like I'm controlling any of it. I don't really feel connected.

Maybe I'll be a pitcher next time. Or a one-dimensional Dave Kingman-type slugger. It's an OK game. But not much more than that. Yet.

Orrie · 12-21-2003, 05:41 PM

I was going to post something similar to Kaitiaki who beat me to it. I would agree with some caveats that the game experience is flawed or shallow, as some have noted. Perhaps it would be closer to note that it needs some tweaking - some of which are apparently on the way. Some posters have noted a "shallowness" in that there didn't seem to be enough feedback and interaction. Other posters have noted that there is a dearth of things to do as a Minor Leaguer, until you get to the Show and still others note that there is nothing left to do once you upgrade to the glossy, gaudy equipment. All that makes sense, since it's the growth and development of your character that's at the core of a RPG and on the way, you may want to experience some sort of "feedback" on the character and more things to do that give you, the player, something to do, to help your character. Granted there is satisfaction to watch your character get up from the draft to first All Star game to the World Series win and Hall of Fame entry but the "role" in Role Playing Game is slightly less than well developed. Part of that may be that the sim part is derived from the underlying solid OOTP5 engine, and I don't believe we'd have too many complaints there. But if it seems that there's just a bunch of simming, well that's kind of the way the underlying engine was geared towards, right at this moment. The developer has promised to address this, with more options, interviews, interaction within the game and I would say that we should hold off on judgments on that front. If nothing else, the developer's current track record shows that he and his team have been responsive and thus, I would say, Yeah, it's the only one in the race - but it doesn't mean that it won't get better.

Autism Speaks · 12-21-2003, 06:06 PM

Gosh, gotta love people like Mike and Beach Boy who think a new game should automatically have all the features of a developed game like OOTP.

This is the first effort to come up with a game like this. Instead of standing around sounding a death-knell perhaps you need to take a deep breath and realize it for the effort that it is. OOTP1 was nowhere near the level of depth of OOTP5. ITP1 will be no where near the depth of ITP5.

Keep it in perspective. If you don't like the game, fine, sit around and wait for OOTP 6 and then maybe ITP3 or 4. For a first attempt at a game of this genre, the game is fine.

Kaitiaki · 12-21-2003, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dale And Eli's Dad
Instead of standing around sounding a death-knell perhaps you need to take a deep breath and realize it for the effort that it is.

Most of the critics, myself included, do realize that effort. I also realize that in assessing how enjoyable a game is, such effort is irrelevant.

As a gamer, I don't care whether it took Markus 10 minutes or 10 years to produce this game. I don't care if it's the first of it's kind or the 500th.

I care about whether the game is fun.

"This is the first game of it's kind" is explanation for the game's flaws, but it in no way alleviates or resolves them. The flaws are there, regardless; the fact that they are innovative or original flaws doesn't alter the fact that they are flaws.

I truly do appreciate the effort that has gone into this game. I am still playing it, and I probably will be for a while. I truly do want the game to get better. And for that to happen, Markus & Co. need to know exactly what we, the players, think would make the game better. Praising them and coddling mediocrity will not get improvements made.

ITP has a great deal of potential, but potential is not fun to play. Realized potential is fun -- be we haven't got there yet. I think we will, soon.

Beach Boy · 12-21-2003, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dale And Eli's Dad
Gosh, gotta love people like Mike and Beach Boy who think a new game should automatically have all the features of a developed game like OOTP.

Well, um, yes. I can't judge a game by what it might be in the future. I can only judge it by what it is now. I expect it will get better. Markus' track record is outstanding. But if you ask me how I like ITP today -- not 4 versions from now -- I'd still say: It's OK. Not great yet, but not terrible either. Promising, but not fully realized. Intriguing, but still with long stretches of boringness.

Mikecouil · 12-22-2003, 12:57 PM

I just call 'em as I see 'em. It isn't fair to ask me as a gamer to say nothing but nice things about this game simply because their other game is so good. I also acknowledged that I'm sure it will get better over time. Not sure what you want from me but if you want me to be a mindless lemming it's just not going to happen. I dont like it, I dont think it is worth 20 dollars, and I voiced my criticisms in a fair and polite manner.

Mike

Skipaway · 12-22-2003, 01:01 PM

Again. Perhaps all these wouldn't have been problems if Markus understands Japanese and had played the Konami powerful pro series.

rasnell · 12-22-2003, 01:15 PM

I don't know anything about programming, but there would be a lot more fun and interaction if we had to make a lot more decisions with the training or weight room schedule.

Why not plan out your whole schedule in one screen that decides how much time you'll spend at the bar, relaxing, meeting with a hitting coach, choosing many hitting options such as three hours of bunting practice, three hours of infield practice, three hours of hitting the other way, swinging for the fences.

Each item has a plus and a minus (swinging for fences is going to hurt your contact rating, unless you put a lot of hours into contact batting practice).

The bar just doesn't work. Not enough to do. Not very relevant.

It gets a lot more fun if we have more decisions that influence the ratings. Even more fun if you can tinker with these settings on one screen. The workout schedule screen is a great idea, but it seems like once you get it set, there's not much more to do.

Scheduling time to relax or socialize could help your charisma or team leader skills, perhaps even generate a variety or string of interesting e-mails or items that require decisions leading to consequences.

This is the fairest thread so far and fully explains my situation. I dearly love all versions of OOTP and the efforts by Markus.

I'm very disappointed by ITP. I'm trying to get a refund. But I'm watching these forums and waiting for patches and updates.

I'll spend my money again -- even up to $40, when the game is truly ready.

The game release was below average and not even reaching $20 standards.

But I won't give up on Markus or this company. I'll buy and spend again when the game is truly worthy.

fauteuil7 · 12-22-2003, 01:18 PM

Here's one point of contention I have in the way the game is marketed: is ITP really the first sports RPG? The Tony Hawk series could be called RPG's. You're one character progressing through different tournaments, improving your skills. Mario Tennis, Hot Shots Golf, Knockout Kings, and any number of other games I haven't played do the same thing. Most of the better European Soccer sims could be called RPG's, usually as a manager or owner. Baseball Stars on Nintendo did this really well, with each win giving you money to upgrade your players.

Is it really an RPG, for that matter? There are no real character decisions to be made, no "character" you're playing, no storyline. In a sense, you are developing the player, but not the character at all. If you haven't played "Rockstar", an old text-based game, you should try to find it (it's freeware). Whenever I tried to design a baseball RPG (I can write, but can't program), I looked at many elements from that game, which is a music business RPG. The best part of that game was that random events would be thrown at the player, each one having a direct and demostrable effect on the character, and based on how you chose to live your life, the flavor of the character changed in your mind.

I agree that there is still much work to be done. There is a high ceiling on how much can be put into this game, and I'm looking forward to seeing the game progress. But now, the best that can be said is that it is a sports game with RPG elements. Or, maybe more precisely, "SimBaseballPlayer". It's a very hands-off game. I'm playing as a starting pitcher, and from reading some other posts, it seems like they have the most control of all types. Still, I feel like I'm watching the player rather than playing the character. I have more involement with each player managing 162 games in OOTP than I do "living" as one in ITP. I have no idea who I am, apart from a statistical point of view.

Plus, if I wanted to get drunk and hit on girls who look okay after a dozen or so beers, I don't need a game to do that. Of course, in a game, it takes some of the next morning's guilt and shame out of it.

This is all meant as constructive criticism. I am enjoying the game, but would like to present some of my thoughts in hopes that the next version (or patches) will improve on what we have.

William4192 · 12-22-2003, 01:43 PM

I feel the game is lacking, but

Jeff Olsen · 12-23-2003, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rasnell
The bar just doesn't work. Not enough to do. Not very relevant.

Unless your guy gets invovled in a brawl.

JPWagner · 12-23-2003, 02:40 PM

You know, if you think about it, being a professional baseball player can become pretty routine and actually mundane....put the amount of money they make aside, and think about what a ball player does day after day...it's a repititious routine of training, excersize and playng baseball...so what exactly was anyone of us really expecting here?...sure you could add some touches to make it more interesting, but in the end, the simming of seasons is what it all comes down to...In OOTP, you have so much control that you can play that game and never have it become old...I have been playing since OOTP2 and have never let the game run idle for more than a few weeks at a time....with this game though, I see it like many RPG's you play...you run through an RPG once and defeat the main boss, and there really is no reason to pay it again....in this game, you reach the Hall of Fame at the most difficult level, then what?...I will continue to play this game, but I doubt it will hold my attention for very long....gaming hours are in short supply as it is....

12-21-2003, 12:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mikecouil Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: alex Posts: 89	ITP: My first (and maybe last) impressions I'm a huge fan of the OOTP series, having purchased every single one. After having OOTP2 for a while I had some problems that I can't even remember and someone from OOTP mailed me TWO full version OOTP2 disks as a way of saying sorry and thank you. It meant a lot and drew me to other independent developers. I'd say the VASTY majority of my computer software purchases, gaming AND applications, now come from independent companies. With all that said......I have very little good to say about this product at all. In my opinion, it is not very deep at all, you have very little control on what goes on in your career, the AI is attrocious (released in AAA while rated as one of the top 10 prospects in baseball AND hitting .250 with 20 SB's as the lead off man,read numerous other dumb moves), and the game runs slow on my machine. I have Windows XP on a 1.2 GHZ AMD Athlon with 192 MB of Ram. This system runs OOTP5 pretty decently but sims aren't the fastest. After purchasing Inside The park and seeing how slow it simmed, I went out and bought a 256 MB stick of Ram and yanked my 64 MB piece of crap stick, giving me 384 MB of Ram and a 1.2 GHZ processor. I ran NOTHING else while playing. The Ram helped a little bit but things just seem way to slow to me. I played 2 careers: My first career I opted as a high school right handed outfielder with all 5 tools. I was picked in the bottom of the first round and spent 3 seasons in the minors. During that time I was traded once (for VERY little) and cut. After being cut I was picked up not even a week later and made it to the big leagues. My team sucked but I grew better. My stats were in the 60's for contact and power and 50's in gaps and eye, as well as solid defense and 60's running. What should have been a major strength of the game, which was the contract negotiations, turned out to be a MAJOR let down. It's basically a take it or leave it kind of thing. I was hoping for trade clauses, player and/or club options, incentives, injury insurance stuff. I suffered through 4 VERY BORING major league seasons until I hit free agency, figuring that maybe it would get better. I received 3 offers, all in the 4 million per year range (sorry ass Toronto wanted to give me 2.5 mil a year). I contacted EVERY other club, none of whom was interested. But then all of a sudden they all came nocking one after another and my offers approached 5 mil a year. Again no real negotiating, just take it or leave it. I should note that I visited the bar twice. Once I got drunk and had a hang over the next day. The other time I went in, saw that it was kind of meaningless, and left. My favorite part of the game is the equipment. I like the BBay auctions and the opportunity to get super powered equipment to help aid you. My rookie card value was somewhere in the 400's. I guess I got what I paid for....kind of. It occupied me for about 3 hours (as I kept going further and further hoping something would get better). It ran on my system, and I didn't have to battle the mall crowds to get the game I was considering when I received the ITP announcement email. I just really expected a mind blowing experience, like all of the OOTP games have been. This was SUCH a huge let down. I'm sure it required a lot of work and effort to make this game, but it just doesn't feel like a lot went in to it. It plays as if someone took 4/5 of the options out of OOTP and renamed a player after you. You then get to control ONLY that player (and not very well), and you get to follow him to the sporting good store and the bar after the game. It was a great concept though. If I hadn't forked over the 20 bucks my curiosity would have been going for weeks. Mike

12-21-2003, 12:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
Kaitiaki Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,062	While I agree with most of what you said, I'd caution you against throwing in the towel too soon. Yes, the game is far too shallow and the AI needs serious work. At least on the former front, Markus has already promised updates and new features. I don't mean to suggest that such promises, even fulfilled, excuse releasing a shallow, dull game, but given your obvious appreciation for Markus/OOTPDevelopment's other work, I think it would be a shame to see you give up on ITP before giving Markus a chance to do what he does best: improve his games with each update and version. __________________ BJHL: Commissioner; Owner: Wichita War Eagles

12-21-2003, 03:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,231	Keep in mind that when OOTP1 came out there were many similar concerns about depth, etc. But if you look at the difference between OOTP5 and OOTP1, then you can see the level of improvement that will surely happen with the ITP series. __________________ Baseball Maelstrom - Commish/ St Louis Cardinals USBA - Las Vegas Scorpions

12-21-2003, 04:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
cibl commish Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sycamore, IL Posts: 476	I think this will be a great series. No game ever has everything that everyone wants in the first release. This game though has the potential to be awesome, and it is very good in my opinion. __________________ Rick CIBL Founder/Tampa Bay Devil Rays GM FLB New York Bombers GM

12-21-2003, 05:41 PM	#10 (permalink)
Orrie Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 115	I was going to post something similar to Kaitiaki who beat me to it. I would agree with some caveats that the game experience is flawed or shallow, as some have noted. Perhaps it would be closer to note that it needs some tweaking - some of which are apparently on the way. Some posters have noted a "shallowness" in that there didn't seem to be enough feedback and interaction. Other posters have noted that there is a dearth of things to do as a Minor Leaguer, until you get to the Show and still others note that there is nothing left to do once you upgrade to the glossy, gaudy equipment. All that makes sense, since it's the growth and development of your character that's at the core of a RPG and on the way, you may want to experience some sort of "feedback" on the character and more things to do that give you, the player, something to do, to help your character. Granted there is satisfaction to watch your character get up from the draft to first All Star game to the World Series win and Hall of Fame entry but the "role" in Role Playing Game is slightly less than well developed. Part of that may be that the sim part is derived from the underlying solid OOTP5 engine, and I don't believe we'd have too many complaints there. But if it seems that there's just a bunch of simming, well that's kind of the way the underlying engine was geared towards, right at this moment. The developer has promised to address this, with more options, interviews, interaction within the game and I would say that we should hold off on judgments on that front. If nothing else, the developer's current track record shows that he and his team have been responsive and thus, I would say, Yeah, it's the only one in the race - but it doesn't mean that it won't get better. __________________ Let's go, Red Sox!

12-21-2003, 12:42 PM	#3 (permalink)
BMW Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 258	I can't disagree with much of what you said. I am enjoying the game. However, I wonder how long it will hold my interest. I am hoping it's the start of a good series of games. However, interaction in the game will be what ultimately saves or kills the series. I already had the option to rename a player in OOTP after myself, and follow his career. Watch him play in all-star games, win awards, championships, maybe be elected to the Hall of Fame. All those aspects of the game should be the backdrop of ITP, but sometimes I feel that most of what I'm doing in the game is simming huge chunks at a time to get to what is enjoyable: negotiating contracts, choosing teams, occasionally making a purchase. I had mentioned seeking training from your coaches (in a baseball park setting rather than a bar setting) to increase your skills as a possibility for improvement. Someone offered that that was what was happening behind the scenes when your skills improved during the year. It's a valid point, but this is a game where you're supposed to be controling that very aspect of your player. My player can progress from a 10 contact rating at the start of the game to 60 a few years later with little to no effort or input from me. Some of the best aspects of the game include being able to play on the field, and choose what you do in your at bats. Also, negotiating contracts is pretty good, although adding more depth to that would be very rewarding for all the players. Disappointing aspects of the game start with the weight room. For the most part, I set what I want to do when I'm 20, and alter perhaps two exercises every five years. BBay doesn't really excite me, since the price of equipment has no realistic monetary basis and I can never tell if something on the system is being sold for a great price. The bar seems to offer the most detailed interaction in the game, but as many have said, you don't really have to use it at all to play the game. It seems a shame that the bar seems to squeeze in too much, obviously looking to encompass silly (but not uninteresting) drinking games AND functions that should be part of a clubhouse, like meeting the owner and manager. I say the game should push forward, and hopefully the programming staff does have the time to include the greater interactivity that ITP deserves.

12-21-2003, 04:51 PM	#6 (permalink)
BasicGuy Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ND Posts: 477	I'm torn here.....I want Markus to improve this game by adding features and fixing bugs through patches.....BUT I don't want OOTP 6 to suffer becuase of It. As It stands now I would assume anytime spent working on this game takes away time from working on OOTP 6 and I have high hopes for this years version.

12-21-2003, 05:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
Mikecouil Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: alex Posts: 89	I dont believe you can compare OOTP 1 with ITP 1. OOTP 1 was hands down the best baseball simulation on the market for it's time. It was not a pioneer in the genre but took others good ideas and added great ideas to make an outstanding game. Although I saw things I liked and didn't like about OOTP, it was one of the best games I had ever played. It's a nock on OOTP to even compare the two.

12-21-2003, 05:40 PM	#9 (permalink)
Beach Boy Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Virginia Beach, Va. Posts: 49	I have to reluctantly agree with the first poster. Reluctantly because I like OOTP so much. When I first heard about ITP last year (or was it earlier this year?), it sounded like a shallow idea. I wasn't interested. But when I got the email announcement two days ago and saw the screen shots, I was intrigued. I couldn't resist. I had to try it. And so far it's been... OK. Just OK. After setting up my first player (a slick-fielding, contact-hitting 3B) and exploring the "neighborhood," I played out a couple of games. I stopped at the bar a few times, but that didn't do much. When I realized I could only control my own player, and not very well at that, I switched to simming long swaths of the season and watching my batting average go up and down. As the seasons went by and I bought new bats and gloves and shoes, I got better. I won a few Gold Glove awards. My BA stayed miserable. I negotiated my first contract, only to discover that I had settled for too little money for too long a contract. Now I'm simming entire seasons just to get out of my 5-year contract and see what happens next. In other words: There's not much left for me to do. I've maxxed out on my talents. Eventually I'll become a free agent and try to get a new contract from a new team. But judging from previous posts, I don't guess that will be the great experience I've been hoping for. Ultimately, I'll sim out the rest of my career and then... what? I can't help my team much during pennant runs. I'm not a Hall of Famer. Ultimately, I guess, I'll just watch the sim engine finish my career to see what my final stats are. I'm strangely compelled to keep returning to the computer to watch the sim run. There is an odd fascination to watching my team's fortunes go up and down, and my OBP go up and down, but I don't feel like I'm controlling any of it. I don't really feel connected. Maybe I'll be a pitcher next time. Or a one-dimensional Dave Kingman-type slugger. It's an OK game. But not much more than that. Yet.

12-21-2003, 06:06 PM	#11 (permalink)
Autism Speaks Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Supporting Autism research causes Posts: 2,869	Gosh, gotta love people like Mike and Beach Boy who think a new game should automatically have all the features of a developed game like OOTP. This is the first effort to come up with a game like this. Instead of standing around sounding a death-knell perhaps you need to take a deep breath and realize it for the effort that it is. OOTP1 was nowhere near the level of depth of OOTP5. ITP1 will be no where near the depth of ITP5. Keep it in perspective. If you don't like the game, fine, sit around and wait for OOTP 6 and then maybe ITP3 or 4. For a first attempt at a game of this genre, the game is fine. __________________

12-22-2003, 12:57 PM	#14 (permalink)
Mikecouil Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: alex Posts: 89	I just call 'em as I see 'em. It isn't fair to ask me as a gamer to say nothing but nice things about this game simply because their other game is so good. I also acknowledged that I'm sure it will get better over time. Not sure what you want from me but if you want me to be a mindless lemming it's just not going to happen. I dont like it, I dont think it is worth 20 dollars, and I voiced my criticisms in a fair and polite manner. Mike

12-22-2003, 01:01 PM	#15 (permalink)
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 9,519	Again. Perhaps all these wouldn't have been problems if Markus understands Japanese and had played the Konami powerful pro series. __________________ Confucius: The superior man does not recommend a man because of what he says, nor does he ignore what a man says because of his personality. ria: no

12-22-2003, 01:15 PM	#16 (permalink)
rasnell Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,674	I don't know anything about programming, but there would be a lot more fun and interaction if we had to make a lot more decisions with the training or weight room schedule. Why not plan out your whole schedule in one screen that decides how much time you'll spend at the bar, relaxing, meeting with a hitting coach, choosing many hitting options such as three hours of bunting practice, three hours of infield practice, three hours of hitting the other way, swinging for the fences. Each item has a plus and a minus (swinging for fences is going to hurt your contact rating, unless you put a lot of hours into contact batting practice). The bar just doesn't work. Not enough to do. Not very relevant. It gets a lot more fun if we have more decisions that influence the ratings. Even more fun if you can tinker with these settings on one screen. The workout schedule screen is a great idea, but it seems like once you get it set, there's not much more to do. Scheduling time to relax or socialize could help your charisma or team leader skills, perhaps even generate a variety or string of interesting e-mails or items that require decisions leading to consequences. This is the fairest thread so far and fully explains my situation. I dearly love all versions of OOTP and the efforts by Markus. I'm very disappointed by ITP. I'm trying to get a refund. But I'm watching these forums and waiting for patches and updates. I'll spend my money again -- even up to $40, when the game is truly ready. The game release was below average and not even reaching $20 standards. But I won't give up on Markus or this company. I'll buy and spend again when the game is truly worthy. __________________ Author of new book, "Root for the Cubs: Charlie Root and the 1929 Chicago Cubs," to be published by Wind Publications and available to public by Opening Day 2009. Charlie Root is remembered for one pitch to Babe Ruth in the 1932 World Series. But baseball's biggest lie has overshadowed the career of the winningest pitcher in Cub history. Beta tester, OOTP 2007/08/09. Commissioner in fast-paced, historical Arcanum Baseball League. Member, Society for American Baseball Research.

12-22-2003, 01:18 PM	#17 (permalink)
fauteuil7 Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Central NJ Posts: 325	First of its type? Here's one point of contention I have in the way the game is marketed: is ITP really the first sports RPG? The Tony Hawk series could be called RPG's. You're one character progressing through different tournaments, improving your skills. Mario Tennis, Hot Shots Golf, Knockout Kings, and any number of other games I haven't played do the same thing. Most of the better European Soccer sims could be called RPG's, usually as a manager or owner. Baseball Stars on Nintendo did this really well, with each win giving you money to upgrade your players. Is it really an RPG, for that matter? There are no real character decisions to be made, no "character" you're playing, no storyline. In a sense, you are developing the player, but not the character at all. If you haven't played "Rockstar", an old text-based game, you should try to find it (it's freeware). Whenever I tried to design a baseball RPG (I can write, but can't program), I looked at many elements from that game, which is a music business RPG. The best part of that game was that random events would be thrown at the player, each one having a direct and demostrable effect on the character, and based on how you chose to live your life, the flavor of the character changed in your mind. I agree that there is still much work to be done. There is a high ceiling on how much can be put into this game, and I'm looking forward to seeing the game progress. But now, the best that can be said is that it is a sports game with RPG elements. Or, maybe more precisely, "SimBaseballPlayer". It's a very hands-off game. I'm playing as a starting pitcher, and from reading some other posts, it seems like they have the most control of all types. Still, I feel like I'm watching the player rather than playing the character. I have more involement with each player managing 162 games in OOTP than I do "living" as one in ITP. I have no idea who I am, apart from a statistical point of view. Plus, if I wanted to get drunk and hit on girls who look okay after a dozen or so beers, I don't need a game to do that. Of course, in a game, it takes some of the next morning's guilt and shame out of it. This is all meant as constructive criticism. I am enjoying the game, but would like to present some of my thoughts in hopes that the next version (or patches) will improve on what we have.

12-22-2003, 01:43 PM	#18 (permalink)
William4192 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,530	I feel the game is lacking, but __________________ I wish all the players took steroids! --- PROUD FOUNDER OF THE CHURCH OF E awaiting the second coming of the Great and Mighty E What is this about Rhode Island? It is neither Road or Island. "Yes, I make a lot of money, but I spend a lot of money"---Some NBA Player with Big Nostrils Come check out the MLML. http://mlml.us Or email at william4192@yahoo.com

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12-23-2003, 02:40 PM	#20 (permalink)
JPWagner Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 200	You know, if you think about it, being a professional baseball player can become pretty routine and actually mundane....put the amount of money they make aside, and think about what a ball player does day after day...it's a repititious routine of training, excersize and playng baseball...so what exactly was anyone of us really expecting here?...sure you could add some touches to make it more interesting, but in the end, the simming of seasons is what it all comes down to...In OOTP, you have so much control that you can play that game and never have it become old...I have been playing since OOTP2 and have never let the game run idle for more than a few weeks at a time....with this game though, I see it like many RPG's you play...you run through an RPG once and defeat the main boss, and there really is no reason to pay it again....in this game, you reach the Hall of Fame at the most difficult level, then what?...I will continue to play this game, but I doubt it will hold my attention for very long....gaming hours are in short supply as it is....