OOTP 10 Pitching System Explanation

[clamel]

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

As nearly everyone knows, OOTP 10 has introduced a number of substantial changes to its pitching system. The following will attempt to explain those changes so that OOTP 9 users will know what to expect.

The largest and most obvious change in OOTP 10 is that a pitcher’s pitches now have their own individual ratings.

Finally, we come to a relatively minor change, but one of my personal favorites. Left handed batter/right handed batter platoon splits are now based upon pitch type and strength. This means that if you are looking for a left-handed reliever who specializes in getting left handed batters out (a LOOGY), you can quickly search for those with good sliders, for instance. If you want a right handed reliever who can handle lefties and righties equally well, look for someone with a good cutter. To determine how each pitch would influence a pitcher’s platoon split in OOTP, we gathered data from real life platoon splits of pitchers who specialized in each pitch. OOTP pitchers still have their own individual platoon split ratings, so not all pitchers with the same pitches will end up with the exact same splits, but pitch types give a good general guideline. You can still view a player’s Rating tab in the Player Profile to see individual split ratings, but I’m a big fan of this change because as with many of the changes to the new system, it adds realistic depth and character to my pitchers.

IS THIS REALLY what OOTPX ended up with.
All the talks and threads about pitch selection beying cosmetic are still flying around.

This shows that the intention was to make this version really something.

So once again
IS THIS what I can rely on

If you want a right handed reliever who can handle lefties and righties equally well, look for someone with a good cutter

Then historical import of correct pitches are 110% important.

[Nutlaw]

Originally Posted by clamel

IS THIS REALLY what OOTPX ended up with.
All the talks and threads about pitch selection beying cosmetic are still flying around.

This shows that the intention was to make this version really something.

So once again
IS THIS what I can rely on

If you want a right handed reliever who can handle lefties and righties equally well, look for someone with a good cutter

Then historical import of correct pitches are 110% important.

Yes, that's really how it works. As a commissioner, tinker around with the Player Editor by giving a pitcher different pitch ratings. You can see for yourself.

[Tom the Fish]

I've tried giving it a chance, and I know I'm shouting into the darkness, but I just really, really, really dislike the new pitching system. I dislike having starting pitchers with a stamina under 40, I dislike having relievers with a stamina over 70. I rarely touch historical, but I dislike seeing a pitcher like Pedro Martinez or Steve Carlton being relievers.

Sorry, but it's my opinion. I'm just venting, so in before the bashing I am sure to get.

Tom

[BMW]

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

Yes, that's really how it works. As a commissioner, tinker around with the Player Editor by giving a pitcher different pitch ratings. You can see for yourself.

Yep, I can confirm this too.

Originally Posted by Tom the Fish

I've tried giving it a chance, and I know I'm shouting into the darkness, but I just really, really, really dislike the new pitching system. I dislike having starting pitchers with a stamina under 40, I dislike having relievers with a stamina over 70. I rarely touch historical, but I dislike seeing a pitcher like Pedro Martinez or Steve Carlton being relievers.

Should the beta for the patch go as normal, the starter-doomed-to-relief roles should be a thing of the past. From what I gathered, this was primarily from the pitchers being saddled with two pitches. I remade the historical pitches database erring greatly on the side of caution to make sure people had enough pitches to start.

If your mother's uncle's neighbor's cousin's German Shepherd thought that some guy was a starting pitcher for the '22 Giants, dollars-to-donuts that he has three pitches now when he gets imported (unless the dog was a Dodgers fan). So provided that Markus gets the other bits working, it will hopefully greatly improve that aspect of historicals.

[battists]

Originally Posted by BMW

Yep, I can confirm this too.


Should the beta for the patch go as normal, the starter-doomed-to-relief roles should be a thing of the past. From what I gathered, this was primarily from the pitchers being saddled with two pitches. I remade the historical pitches database erring greatly on the side of caution to make sure people had enough pitches to start.

If your mother's uncle's neighbor's cousin's German Shepherd thought that some guy was a starting pitcher for the '22 Giants, dollars-to-donuts that he has three pitches now when he gets imported (unless the dog was a Dodgers fan). So provided that Markus gets the other bits working, it will hopefully greatly improve that aspect of historicals.

Yeah, but that won't fix some person's OOTP 9 Major League game... Jus' saying.

[aewin]

Updated in ootp11 manual. Nutlaw if you get a chance to review the pitching ratings section of the OOTP11 manual that would be great. I've used mainly your original text plus thrown in a comment about knuckleballers not necessarily needing 3 pitches to start and also ground ball percentage feeding into movement based on the subsequent posts.

[Nutlaw]

Originally Posted by aewin

Updated in ootp11 manual. Nutlaw if you get a chance to review the pitching ratings section of the OOTP11 manual that would be great. I've used mainly your original text plus thrown in a comment about knuckleballers not necessarily needing 3 pitches to start and also ground ball percentage feeding into movement based on the subsequent posts.

Oh, uh, I'm not involved in the beta process this year. Is the OOTP 11 manual publically available?

[aewin]

Here's the text:

Pitching Ratings

The three basic pitching ratings are Stuff, Movement, and Control. Each of these has a matching potential rating. See Current vs Potential Ratings for more information on the distinction between the two. Additionally, pitchers are rated for each individual pitch they can throw. Pitching ratings can be seen on the Player Profile, the Ratings page, or in any list of players using the Pitching Ratings View. They are also available on the Scouting Reports page.

There are also four additional ratings that do not have corresponding "potential" ratings: Velocity, Stamina, Hold Runners, and Ground Ball %. Pitching ratings are used by the game engine to determine the outcome of a pitch.
Stuff

Stuff is a measure of the quality of a pitcher's pitch repertoire. Think of it as essentially how a pitcher "puts it all together." Stuff directly affects the number of strikeouts a pitcher throws. Stuff is calculated based on a combination of his individual pitch ratings and the velocity with which he throws.
Movement

Movement is a measure of the movement on a pitcher's pitches. It is harder for batters to make good contact with pitches that have good movement. As a result, pitchers with high Movement ratings tend to give up fewer home runs. Movement is calculated based on factors including ground ball %.
Control

Control is a measure of a pitcher's accuracy. Pitchers with good Control ratings tend to walk fewer batters.
Relief Pitcher Bonus

Pitchers are given different Stuff ratings based upon whether they are used as starters or relievers. OOTP has always given a hidden bonus to relievers to reflect the fact that batters get fewer looks at their pitches and have less of a chance to adjust to them. OOTP 11 displays that bonus and heavily ties it to the strength of a reliever's top two pitches as relievers have much less incentive to mix in their weaker offerings than starters, who have to mix in a third or fourth pitch to keep batters guessing. This means that a pitcher with a strong fastball, a strong slider, and a weak changeup might make for an average starting pitcher but a great reliever. You get to decide how he provides the most useful fit for your team.
Velocity

Velocity is a measure of how fast a pitcher throws. Velocity is not measured according to the standard rating system, but rather is measured in miles per hour. Velocity can change over time, with younger players typically gaining velocity as they fill out and losing velocity as they age, or due to injury. This is important because some individual pitch ratings (eg fastball, but not change up) are heavily dependent upon velocity. Velocity is factored into the overall Stuff rating.
Stamina

Stamina is a measure of how many pitches a pitcher can throw before tiring. Pitchers with high Stamina ratings tend to be used as starting pitchers, while pitchers with low Stamina ratings tend to be used as relief pitchers. The bare minimum endurance (now called Stamina) needed in order to start is 50 on the 1-200 scale.
Hold Runners

Hold Runners is a measure of a pitcher's ability to hold runners on base. It is harder for runners on base to steal against pitchers who have high Hold Runners ratings.
Ground Ball %

Ground Ball % is a measure of how many balls hit off this pitcher are ground balls, as compared to fly balls. Pitchers with high Ground Ball % ratings tend to get more ground outs and double plays. Pitchers with low Ground Ball % ratings tend to have a lower BABIP (batting average on balls in play), because fly balls are generally more likely to turn into outs than ground balls. The presence of a curveball or sinker correlates to a higher groundball percentage. Ground ball % is factored into the overall Movement rating.
Individual Pitch Ratings

Pitchers in OOTP can throw an assortment of different pitches, displayed in the Player Profile. Just as with other pitching ratings, pitchers have a "current" and "potential" rating for each pitch. Quite simply, higher individual pitch ratings mean more strikeouts. The number of pitches a pitcher can throw effectively has a strong impact on how he should be used in the game. With the exception of knuckleballers, pitchers require at least three pitches whose average rating is halfway decent in order to be considered competent starters in major league ball. As you travel down to the lower levels of the minor leagues, pitchers need fewer pitches at lower ratings in order to fulfill the same duty. A pitcher's suitability for starting at any level of play can be easily seen in a dropdown menu in the Ratings tab of the Player Profile. This dropdown menu will display a pitcher as a Starter, Borderline Starter, Emergency Starter, or Bullpen pitcher at any level of play you select. Each designation will of course perform increasingly worse in a starting pitching role. Players may learn new pitches over time.
Lefty-Righty Splits

In addition to the basic current versus potential ratings, pitchers also can perform differently depending on the handedness of the batter they are facing. These "split" ratings are displayed on the Ratings page as "VS LHB" (versus left-handed batters) and "VS RHB" (versus right-handed batters). These split ratings are not visible on the Player Profile. Be sure to consider this information when making pitching decisions!
Left handed batter/right handed batter platoon splits are based upon pitch type and strength. This means that if you are looking for a left-handed reliever who specializes in getting left handed batters out (a LOOGY), you can quickly search for those with good sliders, for instance. If you want a right handed reliever who can handle lefties and righties equally well, look for someone with a good cutter. To determine how each pitch would influence a pitcher's platoon split in OOTP, we gathered data from real life platoon splits of pitchers who specialized in each pitch. OOTP pitchers still have their own individual platoon split ratings, so not all pitchers with the same pitches will end up with the exact same splits, but pitch types give a good general guideline. You can still view a player's Rating tab in the Player Profile to see individual split ratings.

[Nutlaw]

Looks good to me. At least as of OOTP 10, I'm fairly sure that all of that is accurate.

[Icy]

One question that i still don't fully understand:

If the individual pitches are already factored in the Stuff rating and also on how good the pitcher is against LHB/RHB, is there any reason to pay attention to them when deciding your rotation besides if they have more than 3 pitches?

Same with velocity and groundball %, that are also factored into stuff and movement.

I still only look at Stuff, Movement and Control to value pitchers (and stamina and number of pitches to decide if starter or reliever), as the rest of things are already factored in the three ratings, so the information looks redundant and more cosmetic for those looking for more details, but not of a real effect when siming.

Am i right?

[ThePretender]

So I've been playing in online leagues for a while but I've never got a pitcher to learn a new pitch. How can I teach a P with 2 pitches a new pitch? I usually just leave them in the minors as starters under the hope they'll develop a new pitch, but that doesn't seem to be enough.

FWIW scouting & coaches are turned off.

[kingcharlesxii]

Originally Posted by Icy

One question that i still don't fully understand:

If the individual pitches are already factored in the Stuff rating and also on how good the pitcher is against LHB/RHB, is there any reason to pay attention to them when deciding your rotation besides if they have more than 3 pitches?

Same with velocity and groundball %, that are also factored into stuff and movement.

I still only look at Stuff, Movement and Control to value pitchers (and stamina and number of pitches to decide if starter or reliever), as the rest of things are already factored in the three ratings, so the information looks redundant and more cosmetic for those looking for more details, but not of a real effect when siming.

Am i right?

Sort of, it matters in borderline cases. I still look at groundball percentage and velocity. A heavy groundball pitcher is only good if you have a solid infield defense. If it is weak and you have great defenders in the outfield, maybe a flyball guy would fit your team better. If your defense is bad, you might prefer the guy that throws harder because he'll get more strikeouts that the guy operating at 87 MPH, even if their stuff is the same.

[Nutlaw]

Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii

Sort of, it matters in borderline cases. I still look at groundball percentage and velocity. A heavy groundball pitcher is only good if you have a solid infield defense. If it is weak and you have great defenders in the outfield, maybe a flyball guy would fit your team better. If your defense is bad, you might prefer the guy that throws harder because he'll get more strikeouts that the guy operating at 87 MPH, even if their stuff is the same.

Right, except that two players with the same Stuff rating should have the same strikeout results. Velocity is factored into pitch ratings and Stuff before those ratings are displayed in the Player Profile.

Also, the other ratings can give you hints as to how a player might develop - a RHP with untapped potential on his slider should be able to improve his ratings against RHB in particular in the future. An older pitcher who seems to rely on his velocity might be in for some trouble sooner rather than later.

Furthermore, when deciding who should start instead of relieve, you should note that pitchers with two very strong top pitches get improved stuff bonuses. You can observe this quickly by changing their roles back and forth.

So it isn't vital that you pay real attention to these other factors, but they are more than cosmetic.

[Nutlaw]

Originally Posted by ThePretender

So I've been playing in online leagues for a while but I've never got a pitcher to learn a new pitch. How can I teach a P with 2 pitches a new pitch? I usually just leave them in the minors as starters under the hope they'll develop a new pitch, but that doesn't seem to be enough.

FWIW scouting & coaches are turned off.

It's random. Every once in a while, one of your players gets lucky and learns a new pitch. Don't count on it happening for any individual player.