What is "Use pre-defined draft vakue for AI"?

Rand · 06-04-2009, 03:01 AM

In league creation under Rules>Amateur Draft Rules there is an option for using pre-defined draft value for AI.
What is this/what does it do?

The in game help makes no mention of it nor does the picture in the help even show the option.

plannine · 06-07-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rand

In league creation under Rules>Amateur Draft Rules there is an option for using pre-defined draft value for AI.
What is this/what does it do?

The in game help makes no mention of it nor does the picture in the help even show the option.

I was wondering too......no mention in the online manual.

Spritze · 06-07-2009, 12:37 PM

All historical players were evaluated for career RC and assigned values. The AI drafts without any knowledge of who is who in default mode. With this checked it knows who was naughty and who was nice and drafts accordingly. Basically it creates a smarter AI for draft purposes and then the AI undergoes another lobotomy and goes dumberer again.

Nukester · 07-06-2009, 11:26 PM

How has this option been working out?

Does the AI pick strictly by the "pre-defined" value, or does it still evaluate its rosters and chooses accordingly? For instance, if the AI rosters are loaded with firstbasemen, but the next highest pre-defined value in the draft is a firstbaseman, will the AI still take that player, or will it evaluate its rosters and maybe take the 2nd or 3rd highest pre-defined value guy ?

Nukester · 07-08-2009, 04:59 PM

Bueller........Bueller...........Bueller.......... .

Mike Lowe · 01-10-2010, 03:54 PM

Bump...still confused by this. Is this only used for historical leagues?

BaseballMan · 01-10-2010, 05:24 PM

Seems like a useless option to me. Whenever it is checked it seems to pick the worst players first and it seems to just go alphabetically. With it off i see players like Rube Waddell, Honus Wagner, Christy Mathewson taken first. With it on i see players most of us have barely heard of taken first. Surely hall of fame players should have more value.
Or is it something you should turn on after the first year. In that then it will give more value to player if it is a position a team needs?
Sure would be nice to have a clear answer to this options intended purpose

Killing Time · 01-10-2010, 07:42 PM

I tried it, it seemed less than useless, and I never touched it again.

PhillieFever · 01-10-2010, 08:30 PM

It was put into the game to be used only in historical simulations that use the DB's that come with the game.If you try to use it with a modded DB it will not work,that much I know.If you're using a non modded DB in a historical league and it's still not working,then there's obviously a problem.If I get a chance,I'll test it out tonight.

BaseballMan · 01-10-2010, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

It was put into the game to be used only in historical simulations that use the DB's that come with the game.If you try to use it with a modded DB it will not work,that much I know.If you're using a non modded DB in a historical league and it's still not working,then there's obviously a problem.If I get a chance,I'll test it out tonight.

Well thats probably why it doesnt work for me but it would be nice if it said that in the manual so people would know.

Spritze · 01-11-2010, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nukester

For instance, if the AI rosters are loaded with firstbasemen, but the next highest pre-defined value in the draft is a firstbaseman, will the AI still take that player, or will it evaluate its rosters and maybe take the 2nd or 3rd highest pre-defined value guy ?

Yes it will take the 2nd or 3rd rated guy if'n you have no need of a firstbaseman but if the top 10 are firstbaseman you'll get stuck with one.

actionjackson · 01-20-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

All historical players were evaluated for career RC and assigned values. The AI drafts without any knowledge of who is who in default mode. With this checked it knows who was naughty and who was nice and drafts accordingly. Basically it creates a smarter AI for draft purposes and then the AI undergoes another lobotomy and goes dumberer again.

Beg to differ on the bolded part Sir Spritze and I've got some pictures for you. First with the pre-defined draft value for AI checked:

actionjackson · 01-20-2010, 01:11 PM

Now with the pre-defined draft value for the AI not checked:

actionjackson · 01-20-2010, 01:41 PM

The snapshots were taken from two different games obviously. With the pre-defined draft value for the AI checked, the Cleveland Spiders were able to snag Kid Nichols in the 8th round and Cy Young in the 12th round of the 1889 draft, despite a winning record of 82-72 that year. For Spider fans it was

and

time. For the rest of the teams in the league's fans it was

and

time. The second snapshot with the pre-defined draft value for the AI unchecked definitely produces the more believable, logical result as Kid Nichols gets taken first overall in the draft by the Spiders, while Cy Young is taken 5th overall by the Giants. So while it is an excellent idea in theory, in practice it definitely is still in the needs work stage. Also, as others have commented for the most part when this option is checked the draft runs in alphabetical order (see for yourself in the first screenie), which gives the human player a huge advantage over all the AI teams because he can hold off on the best players and take them in alphabetical order as the draft progresses. This option will be good when it's ready, but clearly it isn't yet and until it is I would recommend people leave it unchecked, unless of course you're shooting for the first ever undefeated season in the history of baseball.

Spritze · 01-20-2010, 01:44 PM

Basically it is "supposed to" create a smarter AI for draft purposes.

Personally I never use it. You should post it as a bug.

Markus Heinsohn · 01-21-2010, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

The snapshots were taken from two different games obviously. With the pre-defined draft value for the AI checked, the Cleveland Spiders were able to snag Kid Nichols in the 8th round and Cy Young in the 12th round of the 1889 draft, despite a winning record of 82-72 that year. For Spider fans it was

and

time. For the rest of the teams in the league's fans it was

and

time. The second snapshot with the pre-defined draft value for the AI unchecked definitely produces the more believable, logical result as Kid Nichols gets taken first overall in the draft by the Spiders, while Cy Young is taken 5th overall by the Giants. So while it is an excellent idea in theory, in practice it definitely is still in the needs work stage. Also, as others have commented for the most part when this option is checked the draft runs in alphabetical order (see for yourself in the first screenie), which gives the human player a huge advantage over all the AI teams because he can hold off on the best players and take them in alphabetical order as the draft progresses. This option will be good when it's ready, but clearly it isn't yet and until it is I would recommend people leave it unchecked, unless of course you're shooting for the first ever undefeated season in the history of baseball.

Looks like the players did not have any pre-defined draft values and hence the game picked in alphabetical order. Have you used a custom database? I just tested this here with the default database and it worked fine...

BaseballMan · 01-21-2010, 08:47 AM

What does the default database have that a custom database doesnt?
Shouldnt they both have the same category of stats. Just wondering if
there is something we can add to the custom database?

Spritze · 01-21-2010, 01:16 PM

Custom DB's may not have the additional Draft Value and Career Fielding and Pitch Repertoire data. It needs to be added to the master.csv files. I know the latest Spritze db has them added, and I believe the Gambo db may as well.

Last weekend I finished up the latest Spritze 11.0 db that will also have these new fields. Contains the 2009 stats as well. Look for it on PadresFan's site next week.

As Gambo has discontinued his Db he has asked that a Gamboized version of the Spritze db be released as well. That is also done and includes the new fields.

fhomess · 01-21-2010, 05:00 PM

I would guess that in the absence of a pre-defined draft value, the game can't differentiate which player to pick first, so it picks them in the order they appear in the database, which is usually alphabetical.

actionjackson · 01-26-2010, 05:40 PM

Thanks for all the responses guys. Disappointed

that I can't use this feature with the database I use, but at least I understand why now. Cheers.

06-04-2009, 03:01 AM	#1 (permalink)
Rand Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 57 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3x in 3 posts	What is "Use pre-defined draft value for AI"? In league creation under Rules>Amateur Draft Rules there is an option for using pre-defined draft value for AI. What is this/what does it do? The in game help makes no mention of it nor does the picture in the help even show the option. Last edited by Rand; 06-04-2009 at 03:07 AM.

07-06-2009, 11:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
Nukester All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Newburgh, NY Posts: 1,930 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2x in 2 posts	How has this option been working out? Does the AI pick strictly by the "pre-defined" value, or does it still evaluate its rosters and chooses accordingly? For instance, if the AI rosters are loaded with firstbasemen, but the next highest pre-defined value in the draft is a firstbaseman, will the AI still take that player, or will it evaluate its rosters and maybe take the 2nd or 3rd highest pre-defined value guy ? __________________ Well, I don't really think that the end can be assessed as of itself as being the end because what does the end feel like? It's like saying when you try to extrapolate the end of the universe, you say, if the universe is indeed infinite, then how - what does that mean? How far is all the way, and then if it stops, what's stopping it, and what's behind what's stopping it? So, what's the end, you know, is my question to you.

07-08-2009, 04:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
Nukester All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Newburgh, NY Posts: 1,930 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2x in 2 posts	Bueller........Bueller...........Bueller.......... . __________________ Well, I don't really think that the end can be assessed as of itself as being the end because what does the end feel like? It's like saying when you try to extrapolate the end of the universe, you say, if the universe is indeed infinite, then how - what does that mean? How far is all the way, and then if it stops, what's stopping it, and what's behind what's stopping it? So, what's the end, you know, is my question to you.

01-20-2010, 01:11 PM	#13 (permalink)
actionjackson All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 1,142 Thanks: 774 Thanked 233x in 165 posts	Now with the pre-defined draft value for the AI not checked: Attached Images

01-20-2010, 01:41 PM	#14 (permalink)
actionjackson All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 1,142 Thanks: 774 Thanked 233x in 165 posts	The snapshots were taken from two different games obviously. With the pre-defined draft value for the AI checked, the Cleveland Spiders were able to snag Kid Nichols in the 8th round and Cy Young in the 12th round of the 1889 draft, despite a winning record of 82-72 that year. For Spider fans it was and and time. For the rest of the teams in the league's fans it was and and time. The second snapshot with the pre-defined draft value for the AI unchecked definitely produces the more believable, logical result as Kid Nichols gets taken first overall in the draft by the Spiders, while Cy Young is taken 5th overall by the Giants. So while it is an excellent idea in theory, in practice it definitely is still in the needs work stage. Also, as others have commented for the most part when this option is checked the draft runs in alphabetical order (see for yourself in the first screenie), which gives the human player a huge advantage over all the AI teams because he can hold off on the best players and take them in alphabetical order as the draft progresses. This option will be good when it's ready, but clearly it isn't yet and until it is I would recommend people leave it unchecked, unless of course you're shooting for the first ever undefeated season in the history of baseball. Last edited by actionjackson; 01-20-2010 at 01:48 PM.

06-07-2009, 12:37 PM	#3 (permalink)
Spritze Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redmond Wa and Cape Coast Ghana Posts: 2,945 Thanks: 16 Thanked 341x in 239 posts	All historical players were evaluated for career RC and assigned values. The AI drafts without any knowledge of who is who in default mode. With this checked it knows who was naughty and who was nice and drafts accordingly. Basically it creates a smarter AI for draft purposes and then the AI undergoes another lobotomy and goes dumberer again.

01-10-2010, 03:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mike Lowe All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,198 Thanks: 55 Thanked 18x in 9 posts	Bump...still confused by this. Is this only used for historical leagues?

01-10-2010, 05:24 PM	#7 (permalink)
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,536 Thanks: 8 Thanked 90x in 60 posts	Seems like a useless option to me. Whenever it is checked it seems to pick the worst players first and it seems to just go alphabetically. With it off i see players like Rube Waddell, Honus Wagner, Christy Mathewson taken first. With it on i see players most of us have barely heard of taken first. Surely hall of fame players should have more value. Or is it something you should turn on after the first year. In that then it will give more value to player if it is a position a team needs? Sure would be nice to have a clear answer to this options intended purpose

01-10-2010, 08:30 PM	#9 (permalink)
PhillieFever Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Philly Posts: 5,884 Thanks: 367 Thanked 303x in 259 posts	It was put into the game to be used only in historical simulations that use the DB's that come with the game.If you try to use it with a modded DB it will not work,that much I know.If you're using a non modded DB in a historical league and it's still not working,then there's obviously a problem.If I get a chance,I'll test it out tonight.

01-20-2010, 01:44 PM	#15 (permalink)
Spritze Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redmond Wa and Cape Coast Ghana Posts: 2,945 Thanks: 16 Thanked 341x in 239 posts	Basically it is "supposed to" create a smarter AI for draft purposes. Personally I never use it. You should post it as a bug.

01-21-2010, 08:47 AM	#17 (permalink)
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,536 Thanks: 8 Thanked 90x in 60 posts	What does the default database have that a custom database doesnt? Shouldnt they both have the same category of stats. Just wondering if there is something we can add to the custom database?

01-21-2010, 01:16 PM	#18 (permalink)
Spritze Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redmond Wa and Cape Coast Ghana Posts: 2,945 Thanks: 16 Thanked 341x in 239 posts	Custom DB's may not have the additional Draft Value and Career Fielding and Pitch Repertoire data. It needs to be added to the master.csv files. I know the latest Spritze db has them added, and I believe the Gambo db may as well. Last weekend I finished up the latest Spritze 11.0 db that will also have these new fields. Contains the 2009 stats as well. Look for it on PadresFan's site next week. As Gambo has discontinued his Db he has asked that a Gamboized version of the Spritze db be released as well. That is also done and includes the new fields.

01-21-2010, 05:00 PM	#19 (permalink)
fhomess Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,749 Thanks: 15 Thanked 275x in 125 posts	I would guess that in the absence of a pre-defined draft value, the game can't differentiate which player to pick first, so it picks them in the order they appear in the database, which is usually alphabetical. __________________ StatsLab11 - PHP/MySQL based utilities for Online Leagues Other Mods: 19th Century: Schedules, FaceGen BBCards: 1887 Allen & Ginter, 1934 Goudey, 1988 Score, 1996 fhomess, 2005 fhomess FaceGen: 1960-Pres MLB, 32 Colleges, Backgrounds PEBA - Connecticut Nutmeggers

01-26-2010, 05:40 PM	#20 (permalink)
actionjackson All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 1,142 Thanks: 774 Thanked 233x in 165 posts	Thanks for all the responses guys. Disappointed that I can't use this feature with the database I use, but at least I understand why now. Cheers.

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