Injuries are just fine

[Tullius]

Originally Posted by toxicavenger74

Yeah, that's probably too harsh to judge a message board individuals intelligence based off of a discussion about baseball injuries with regards to a AI system.

This was not really directed to a "message board indivduals" but it is something i have watched very often in my business and almost all are stranded at some point. So when somebody tries to convince me with " I have never seen this " or " i can not imagine sth" the odds are high that he has no clue.

[GBS]

I'm playing the quick start fictional league that comes with the game with default injury setting. in 1951, the first year, my total salary was $1,700,000 of which $750,000 was on the DL with season ending injurys. My team won 43 games and I got a 16 of 100 rating from the game. I was pissed and did two things. Change the league name to "NFL" and turned injuries down to low. It still provides plenty of DL activity even at that setting. I don't know what is real or not and don't care. I didn't realise baseball players were such pussys.

[toxicavenger74]

Originally Posted by GBS

I'm playing the quick start fictional league that comes with the game with default injury setting. in 1951, the first year, my total salary was $1,700,000 of which $750,000 was on the DL with season ending injurys. My team won 43 games and I got a 16 of 100 rating from the game. I was pissed and did two things. Change the league name to "NFL" and turned injuries down to low. It still provides plenty of DL activity even at that setting. I don't know what is real or not and don't care. I didn't realise baseball players were such pussys.

The approach of injuries in baseball is different than it was in 1950's. GM's and owners saw players as more replaceable and had less invested in them at that time so allowing a player to play through the injury was much more acceptable. Additionally, there was less proactive therapy or surgery and more of a tactial approach. so an injury that may not be too bad today or at least could be played through but may cause significant long-term problems was not a concern then as the player just played through.

In the modern era GM's and owners and players are much more wary of this.

Throw in perception v. reality of injuries, more teams and the fact that we are dealing with 25-40 year old men and a game that requires a lot of movement and coordination and the slights injury to an extremity can affect that coordinated movement to hit or throw effectively.

So, they may seem like wimps but....

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by tysok

So far nothing has really eclipsed my worst experience ever in OOTP9, where 4 of my 5 man rotation, 2 of my relievers, my CF, my backup OF, both of my ML catchers, my 2B, and my DH/backup IF were all on the DL at the same time... for a 2 week period before they started straggling back in.

Thats punishment for using a DH!!!

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

I'm going to say this for like the hundredth time: if you think injuries are too numerous or put players out for too long, dial injury frequency down a notch or two and edit injury.txt until you get what you like. One man's realism is another man's lack of enjoyment. Customize the game until it suits you.

BANG ON!

This game has me hooked becuase of its customizability (I think I made up a new word!) If you dont like default injuries and the next notch down is too big a jump down, copy settigns and find middle ground in a new setting.

Now for those of you upset the default setting is too high and dont want to use an easy work around for it.. thats your choice, but please dont whine about it. Be happy injuries are hard coded in and you had no choice in the matter!

[injury log]

Originally Posted by Trooper

So turn injury setting on low and shut up? No wonder you all are playing with edited injuries if that's how things are done on these boards.

I read how Markus stated he tested injuries and they were found to be realistic on default.

I don't think anyone should be criticized on this board for providing their feedback about the injury system, or any other aspect of the game, and there has been a lot of constructive commentary about the new injury model. As has been pointed out, there are details that aren't quite right at the moment, and I'm hopeful that these will be addressed in the first patch. In particular, batters suffer many fewer long injuries than pitchers in real life, and OOTP doesn't quite have the batter/pitcher injury balance in line.

I know that I personally want to play a realistic baseball sim, with realistic modern-day injury frequency and severity, and I think many people feel the same way. That said, I'd expect that the majority of OOTP players want a 'playable' injury level, with injury frequency somewhat lower than real life. The goal with this version was to provide a default injury setting that most users would find playable, and an optional 'high' setting that would match up fairly closely with real life, so that all users could find a setting to their liking. If users are finding too many injuries on the default setting, perhaps that should be adjusted in a patch; for now, the best solution is to play with injuries on 'low'.

Finally, in my experience with OOTP, whenever a game feature has been remodeled, I've normally found that it takes a bit of time to become perfected. There is only one person, with an unfortunately finite amount of time, coding game engine changes, and a very finite beta team testing various iterations of an unfinished product during the development cycle. With OOTP's degree of sophistication, and so many implications to consider with any game change - how the AI will respond, how changes affect player development and usage, how changes affect historical leagues, how changes affect online leagues, how changes should be displayed to the user, whether changes offer exploits to the user, etc - I think it's understandable that some complex features might be imperfect the first time, but might become perfect after extensive evaluation, and I'm confident that's true of the injury model.

[Tin of Maize]

I played a MLB 2009 all the way through, originally at "normal" (Which I think is the default), and then after about a month, I bumped it to "realistic". I was certainly dismayed at the injuries but kept it there until the last month when I had too many guys going back on the DL for the second or third time.

However, after reading this forum, I will change it back to "realistic" before I start 2010. And I'll just deal with it.

(I still managed to manage the Giants to a third place finish, above .500 and above the Dodgers, even though Matt Cain was out most of the season! It helps when you've got Lincecum. And I luckily I got a career year out of Uribe....(which brings up another issue - what do you do when your scout gives one star to a guy who just finished with a 30 VORP?))

[Trooper]

Originally Posted by Tullius

Feedback can help but it requires here that you have at least a little clue about statistics. Even when the odds are 1:1000 it does not mean that the event can not occur in the first event. And only few people realize that a human has to many limits to imagine all possible cases so that a conclusion like " i have never seen this ... and so it must be wrong " is not a sign of intelligence.

You're being blinded by your own ego. I'm sharing my experience about newly released software which may possibly have an injury bug. Events that take 1000 chances to occur don't usually happen on the first trial, so naturally it's a red flag which may need to be looked at. What's the alternative, for me to play 1000 games manually and report my findings? By then OOTP12 will be released. The developer needs to have an idea of what issues to look at now - prior to working on patches.

My results thus far are remarkable and quite possibly abnormal. This is a discussion forum to share ideas, information and see if others are having similiar experiences. If you don't understand this then perhaps you should check your own intellect. I'm not trying to start a debate on whether or not three injuries can occur in a game, I already know the answer to that. I can't recall seeing it, but I do understand it happens.

[urzadek]

i lost carl crawford, joe mauer, asdrubal cabrera, and jason bartlett all to 60 day dl stints in my first year... which doesn't surprise me much, but needless to say my lineup isn't as good as it looked after my inaugural draft

[jbergey22]

From the numerous examples it does really only seem the batter/pitching ratio of pure number and longetivity of injuries need to be adjusted. The amount of injuries doesnt seem to be the problem.