Should the overall ratings threads be merged?

[kq76]

I keep wondering if they should be merged. On the one hand, one super thread on them might help convince Markus to do something about it, but then again merging them will make it less obvious which posts are referring to what exactly. To those interested in this issue being addressed, what do you think would be best: merge or no merge?

The threads:
Why is this P 21/73 when real and pot ratings the same?
I still don't understand overall ratings
BZ 3134: Major problem with pitching staffs (same topic? kind of?)
Potential Ratings Seem Completely Screwed Up For Pitchers
First impressions! (some posts)

And there's probably a number of others that I haven't taken note of. Post links to them if you care to.

If it'll help then I'm willing to piece it all together, but if it won't then I certainly don't want to.

EDIT: I should say I'm thinking don't do anything as if people started a separate thread, they probably had good reason to. So maybe just collecting all the links to the different threads is best.

[bababui]

Its OK by me.

[fantom1979]

This should be a poll....


Seriously, if the thread authors have no problem with it, then I think you should do it.

[satchel]

Yes, put all the crying in one place, so it only creates a single, deep pool of tears.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by satchel

Yes, put all the crying in one place, so it only creates a single, deep pool of tears.

You havent read the threads, have you?

[endgame]

kq, I just created a BZ 3205 referencing at least three threads that lumps the problem of OVR and POT into one concept needing exploration and review. If you feel this would be helpful, I don't think it would hurt and I can update the BZ, merging any existing BZs that fit into that category as well, if you think that's in the best of interest of getting a once over by Markus before the patch.

I'm also encouraging, rightly or wrongly, Markus to address the OVR POT concept with and without scouting in a similar address to Nutlaw's Pitching in OOTPX. I think it would be very helpful for all of us to get at least the overview from the maker. It would be an excellent starting point IF we don't let it turn into a what about this, what about that, I don't know why you this, ..... just something for us to READ and try the old:

try first to understand, and only then to be understood.

It's a concept long overdue for discussion, but one filled with landmines if people start taking up banners instead of working together to comprehend the intentions before the battle to have it one's own way.

Edit: And collecting the links is not a bad idea at all. The BZ can easily be updated with a reference to the collection for review.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by endgame

kq, I just created a BZ 3205 referencing at least three threads that lumps the problem of OVR and POT into one concept needing exploration and review. If you feel this would be helpful, I don't think it would hurt and I can update the BZ, merging any existing BZs that fit into that category as well, if you think that's in the best of interest of getting a once over by Markus before the patch.

I'm also encouraging, rightly or wrongly, Markus to address the OVR POT concept with and without scouting in a similar address to Nutlaw's Pitching in OOTPX. I think it would be very helpful for all of us to get at least the overview from the maker. It would be an excellent starting point IF we don't let it turn into a what about this, what about that, I don't know why you this, ..... just something for us to READ and try the old:

try first to understand, and only then to be understood.

It's a concept long overdue for discussion, but one filled with landmines if people start taking up banners instead of working together to comprehend the intentions before the battle to have it one's own way.

I completely agree. My thread is basically about a 19 year old pitcher whose ratings fluctuate wildly over a two month stretch from 20/73 to 20/20 to 43/43 to about 76/76. Since these rating affect how the AI responds to trades, this is a vitally important subject. im sure that cool heads will prevail and squash this little bug.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by bababui

I completely agree...im sure that cool heads will prevail and squash this little bug.

You make me want to touch my hand to your forehead and take your temperature.

I'm confident, too, that we'll come to some understanding about the evaluations. I guess that's the troublesome aspect of the whole, shall we say confusing interpretations?, is that it's interconnected with scouting, OSA, AI Evaluation, player development to a degree, league settings and league talent levels, positional talents, and so on...

We'll get there. Thanks for the encouraging word.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by endgame

You make me want to touch my hand to your forehead and take your temperature.

I'm confident, too, that we'll come to some understanding about the evaluations. I guess that's the troublesome aspect of the whole, shall we say confusing interpretations?, is that it's interconnected with scouting, OSA, AI Evaluation, player development to a degree, league settings and league talent levels, positional talents, and so on...

We'll get there. Thanks for the encouraging word.

May I add that I have scouting off in my universe? Perhaps this can remove a few variables from my thread.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by endgame

...

Sounds good, endgame. I take it you're following at least those first two threads? Since you're on the inside a bit (beta) you probably have a good idea of the best way to accomplish whatever we want to get accomplished. If there's something I can do to help (merge, move, whatever), please let me know.

[endgame]

Currently, this seems to be the definitive response, other than checking out a couple of peculiar incidents. It's basically the response to the BZ, and I'll have to digest it awhile. I'm not ready to concede it sits as comfortably as it could. :shrug: But this is where it's at presently; perhaps all there is to come:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Some things to keep in mind:

1) Overall stars always use stats in the equation (the way it's set up in the AI evaluation settings), Potential stars do not, they are 100% ratings.

2) Both are relative to the league average.

3) In some cases with the new pitching system, the overall rating is calculated using the current role of the pitcher, where as his potential rating is calculated the projected role in the future. So, when a pitcher is currently a decent reliever, but projects to a below-average starter, the overall rating may be lower than his potential rating.

So, nothing is broken, it works as designed. (unless I find a bug, of course )

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by endgame

Currently, this seems to be the definitive response, other than checking out a couple of peculiar incidents. It's basically the response to the BZ, and I'll have to digest it awhile. I'm not ready to concede it sits as comfortably as it could. :shrug: But this is where it's at presently; perhaps all there is to come:

The problem that I have with Markus's reply there is that it is somewhat a house of cards that something somewhere seems flawed.

The overall ratings is dependent on the current evaluation of the player based on the AI evaluation settings that you have defined in your game. That makes sense, I understand what he is saying there.

The issue however in a few cases:

Where the OVR/POT ratings are fluctuating a decent amount in a short period of time: Based on what Markus says this would mean that the underlying evaluation of that player is also fluctuating alot during the same time despite those ratings not showing any different within the game?

Where two players with fairly similar ratings have grossly different OVR/POT ratings: I can understand this, perhaps one just outperformed the other one and had much better stats, or had been utilized differently than the other to cause the AI to evaluate him differently?

Where a player's current ratings are matching their potential ratings, yet their OVR/POT is listed as say 21/76: I assume here his potential rating is one of the better at his position in the league thus a higher potential rating. His current ratings being fully developed would suggest that his ratings are fine, but once again the AI is evaluating him on more than just ratings depending on how you configured your AI evaluation in the configuration. So in this case I would assume that player had some really awful stats the last few seasons to the point where his OVR rating is pretty poor?


So I think I can see some of where Markus is coming from regarding to the working as designed, but there still seems to be parts that need some second glances, such as the fluctuating ratings in a small amount of time. At the worst, something is broken, or at the least it is working as intended, but is pretty confusing and needs some form of FAQ to better explain the entire thing to people.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by endgame

Currently, this seems to be the definitive response, other than checking out a couple of peculiar incidents. It's basically the response to the BZ, and I'll have to digest it awhile. I'm not ready to concede it sits as comfortably as it could. :shrug: But this is where it's at presently; perhaps all there is to come:

I wish Markus could explain:

1)Why this guy is rated 78/78?

2)If he is so great, why did the AI place him in AAA immediately after the draft?

3)Why are there instances where overall/potential ratings have little relation to basic pitching ratings?

[Neags23]

Well, Markus did post this

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

This looks a bit strange indeed. Can you supply me with the league files of that guy please?

after this

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Some things to keep in mind:

1) Overall stars always use stats in the equation (the way it's set up in the AI evaluation settings), Potential stars do not, they are 100% ratings.
2) Both are relative to the league average.
3) In some cases with the new pitching system, the overall rating is calculated using the current role of the pitcher, where as his potential rating is calculated the projected role in the future. So, when a pitcher is currently a decent reliever, but projects to a below-average starter, the overall rating may be lower than his potential rating.

So, nothing is broken, it works as designed. (unless I find a bug, of course )

And I sent him the files, so hopefully he'll take a closer look.

[BPS]

One symptom that something is amiss is that I've seen numerous position players (although far more pitchers) who have very different potentials and ratings on: a) profile page and b) scouting report page.

[bschr682]

Originally Posted by BPS

One symptom that something is amiss is that I've seen numerous position players (although far more pitchers) who have very different potentials and ratings on: a) profile page and b) scouting report page.

That one bugs me as well. I guess in the end i don't care if one or the other is wrong. I just want to know which one i should trust. One report says hes good and the other page says hes not. Which one is telling the truth as they both can't be right.