AI sub choices

[Horks]

During a game I simmed today, the AI decided to pinch hit my catcher. When looking at the log, this concerned me, because my starting catcher is already on DL, so subbing out the catcher in game meant the sub was NOT A CATCHER. I checked the stats of said sub. He is a first baseman, with 0 catcher experience. He racked up 7 innings of catcher fielding stats 4 putouts, 1 assist, 0 errors. He even caught a runner stealing. But I consider this more luck than skill.

I would prefer the AI make better choices when subbing in simmed games. I don't want to hinder the AI from subbing any hitters. I just don't want it to sub a hitter that ends up being a defensive liability. Is there some hidden slider for this that I'm missing? My strategy slider is already set to favor defense. Is there something else?

[SteveP]

Are you saying that you only had one catcher on your active roster, after your starting catcher went on DL? If so, the AI should not have taken him out for a PH. That was supposed to fixed (or at least substantially reduced) in OOTP10. It may be something the needs to be reported in Technical.

It's a design quirk of OOTP that any player can play catcher. It's unrealistic, but there are some practical reasons why this exists. However, in OOTP10, the need for this should this occur very rarely, and only in late innings, and really mostly only because of event like an injury to the only available catcher, or his getting thrown out of the game, or something like that.

[Horks]

Originally Posted by SteveP

Are you saying that you only had one catcher on your active roster, after your starting catcher went on DL?

This is exactly what happened. When the game began, I had just one player who had any catcher experience. Somewhere in the second inning, the AI decided to pinch hit for him, leaving a first baseman to play catcher for the rest of the game. This was not an injury replacement. My catcher started on the following day. I'm playing a minor league team, so I don't have the option to go get another catcher, just have to way for the MLB GM to notice I'm short

We really need a slider to control who is considered qualified for a postition. I hate seeing the AI play outfielders with terrible fielding ratings, then PH in a guy who is an OF with far superior defensive ratings.

I started to write this in the Tech Support forums, but thought it might be my own misunderstanding, and not a bug. So, I ended up posting it here instead. Maybe some kind moderator can move this post for me

[SteveP]

I'm playing a minor league team, so I don't have the option to go get another catcher, just have to way for the MLB GM to notice I'm short

Well, that might be a clue to the problem. I think it is possible that at the minor league level, this sort of substitution would be allowed by the game design. That's just speculation on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised. I've never tried managing at the minors level, but it's clear that people who do that have to expect an experience that is a bit less realistic than managing a major league team.

I started to write this in the Tech Support forums, but thought it might be my own misunderstanding, and not a bug. So, I ended up posting it here instead. Maybe some kind moderator can move this post for me

Maybe we leave this here and see if it attracts a more knowledgeable poster. In any event, if you don't get a satisfactory explanation, you should consider posting in Technical -- as I doubt it will get moved.

[pstrickert]

Using OOTPX (gold), after simming a season, I'll check the fielding stats for individual teams. I still notice that many teams use 2-4 non-catchers during the season for one inning or more. It may not happen quite as much as it used to. But it still happens often enough to be a problem, IMO.

[SteveP]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Using OOTPX (gold), after simming a season, I'll check the fielding stats for individual teams. I still notice that many teams use 2-4 non-catchers during the season for one inning or more. It may not happen quite as much as it used to. But it still happens often enough to be a problem, IMO.

1) I agree it still happens. Markus declined to try to eliminate that problem completely, probably because of the programming involved, I suppose.

2) I really do think it is better, at least from the seasons I've checked. I would have given a lower estimate than you do.

3) We can still push with Markus for a real fix, I think, because there is certainly a stronger case there than for other fielding substitution problems (which are also much rarer than they were in OOTP9).

4) The problem described in the OP shouldn't be happening, in any event -- unless the reason is because it was on a minor league team.

[WarFisch]

Originally Posted by Horks

This is exactly what happened. When the game began, I had just one player who had any catcher experience. Somewhere in the second inning, the AI decided to pinch hit for him, leaving a first baseman to play catcher for the rest of the game. This was not an injury replacement. My catcher started on the following day. I'm playing a minor league team, so I don't have the option to go get another catcher, just have to way for the MLB GM to notice I'm short

So you did not see this game in progress? Sometimes players are pulled from a game due to injury, but they recover by the end of the game. This would make sense if there was no catcher on your roster to replace him.

[SteveP]

Originally Posted by WarFisch

So you did not see this game in progress? Sometimes players are pulled from a game due to injury, but they recover by the end of the game. This would make sense if there was no catcher on your roster to replace him.

Although at the bottom of the box score, it will say if a player was taken out because of injury or got kicked out by the ump. So that should definitely be checked (assuming it was saved).

[Horks]

No, sorry. I don't watch my games. Even if it's doing the same simulation type, it feels different, and I'd rather all games are simmed using the same speed, detail, whatever, just for peace of mind. (Had a season where I was doing great, but lacked in home runs. Convinced myself it was because I was doing PbP, and never looked back). I didn't save it either, so I can't check. Frustrated by the lack of control from a minor league team, I've given up on the idea of working my way to the top, and started anew.

However, a similar situation just happened in my new game. The AI replaced my 3B with an outfielder with no experience at 3B. He now has 2.2 innings of 3B. This time, it's in a MLB team. With 2.2 innings, I assume this was a defensive replacement, not a pinch hit, which makes it even weirder. I understand you said this can happen. But I don't understand why the AI chooses to take out the 3B, when he was batting 3 of 4 on the day thus far (and 3 5-4-3 double plays). These are just bad choices.

EDIT: er, okay. Maybe this new example is bad. It's 2.2 innings because they had a walk off win in extra innings. It is a pinch hit, not a defensive sub. And it happened in the 9th inning. So I can understand the sub with bad position replacement a little more. However, the 3B still, was doing stellar. The PH might have slightly better ratings, but why replace a guy doing so good on the day? Seems weird to pinch hit for him. I'll just assume it's the slight argument between GM and bench manager, and not a bug

[knockahoma]

Working in God mode, I used to hate to see that OF, or 1B put in at catcher, especially since I am a historical player.

Used to be back in the 40s and 50s, teams would carry 3 catchers, easily done with even a 24 man roster with pitcher use the way it was. If I'm playing in the 70s now, I get each team 3 catchers on a 25 man roster. It's kind of a compromise, since in the 70s the roster limit was still 24. One extra roster spot, but it must go to a 3rd catcher.

Interestingly, the numbers looked really good for three catchers. Very much based on their abilities how much they played. And it seemed to really help out the AI in substitution usage.

[SteveP]

Originally Posted by Horks

But I don't understand why the AI chooses to take out the 3B, when he was batting 3 of 4 on the day thus far (and 3 5-4-3 double plays).

AFAIK, the AI doesn't consider how a player is hitting or what his current stats are, when deciding to PH for him. The PH decision is most likely based on what the guy's hitting ratings are (except that possibly the AI takes into consideration whether the guy is "on fire" or in a slump). It can be disconcerting because it seems unlikely to happen this way in real life, though I am sure it does from time to time.

PHing for position players in OOTP10 is better than it was in OOTP9 (read: there is much less of it). But at default settings it is probably still too frequent, and it does create the possibility for fielding assignment problems (though this is much rarer now). I strongly recommend that people set league strategy for PHing for position players to "Very Rare". This gets a frequency that is pretty close to realistic.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by SteveP

However, in OOTP10, the need for this should this occur very rarely, and only in late innings, and really mostly only because of event like an injury to the only available catcher, or his getting thrown out of the game, or something like that.

Originally Posted by SteveP

1) I agree it still happens. Markus declined to try to eliminate that problem completely, probably because of the programming involved, I suppose.

Surely the fact that you need to allow non catchers to play catcher in the event of injury is why it can't be eliminated completely? It should be pretty damn rare that it happens for non injury though.

[pstrickert]

IMO, OOTP doesn't make a team suffer enough defensively when a team plays someone out of position (at C, for example).

[SteveP]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

IMO, OOTP doesn't make a team suffer enough defensively when a team plays someone out of position (at C, for example).

That would be right, if it was the result of a decision you made as the manager. But this happens to the AI because the AI can't plan ahead, so Markus made it possible for anyone to play catcher (my speculation/interpretation). The trick is to get enough safeguards built in as a work-around for the AI's inability to plan ahead. OOTP10 is better. We just have to keep working the problem ...