Blown Save?

zekester91 · 06-09-2009, 07:33 PM

How is this a Blown Save....

F. mitchell was injured in with 2 outs in the 5th, leading 1-0, Long reliver comes in goes 4.1 and gets a Blown save... is this really one. The starter didn't go 5 so couldn't get the win...

Cryomaniac · 06-09-2009, 08:19 PM

Good question.

magnet · 06-09-2009, 08:23 PM

I bet the other team tied it up before you went on to win. Am I correct?

TribeFanInNC · 06-09-2009, 09:18 PM

No, I think that is probably an incorrect ruling. If you are in line to get the win, you can not get a save. I would assume that would mean you can't blow a save.

professor ape · 06-09-2009, 10:13 PM

I think that any time a reliever gives up a lead, it is counted as a blown save.

tysok · 06-09-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by professor ape

I think that any time a reliever gives up a lead, it is counted as a blown save.

He has to blow a save. To get a save someone else has to be able to be credited with the win that he "saved". If, as in the case above, the pitcher he's relieving wouldn't qualify for a win then there isn't anything for him to have saved... therefore he can not have blown it - what he did is possibly take himself out of the chance for a decision.

Don't think they have a Blown Chance for Decision stat though.

zekester91 · 06-10-2009, 06:12 AM

Yes, the other team did tie and take a 3-2 lead before a 9th inning comeback.

I don't think this is a problem with the game, but with the way the rule is written as the rule would make it up to the scorer.

BigRed75 · 06-10-2009, 08:59 AM

I think it is a problem with the game, because it should recognise that the winning pitcher never would have gotten a save in the first place because starter didn't go the required number of innings.

This should be logged as a bug, because it's clearly incorrect and needs to be fixed.

Wrathchild · 06-10-2009, 09:36 AM

Along with this, can the pitcher who gets the loss also be given the blown save in the same game? Is that a standard MLB rule?

tysok · 06-10-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrathchild

Along with this, can the pitcher who gets the loss also be given the blown save in the same game? Is that a standard MLB rule?

MLB doesn't track blown saves. But yes, those who do track it give a blown save to any reliever who gives up the tying or go ahead runs when a previous pitcher was in line for a win. And then he can go on to get accolades for having lost the game as well.

OldFatGuy · 06-10-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysok

MLB doesn't track blown saves.

Yeah, this is the issue. Blown saves, holds and save opportunities are not official MLB statistics, and thus, there is no "standard" rule for defining them. For example, I've seen two "definitions" of what defines a save opportunity from two on-line stat sites. Since these are not official rules with MLB definitions (the save IS an official stat, with it's definition in section 10) there's always going to be problems/questions. I always just accept whatever the game says in these types of circumstances.

Cryomaniac · 06-10-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

Yeah, this is the issue. Blown saves, holds and save opportunities are not official MLB statistics, and thus, there is no "standard" rule for defining them. For example, I've seen two "definitions" of what defines a save opportunity from two on-line stat sites. Since these are not official rules with MLB definitions (the save IS an official stat, with it's definition in section 10) there's always going to be problems/questions. I always just accept whatever the game says in these types of circumstances.

This brings to mind the business about whether one player can get both a save and a blown save in one game by having 2 save chances (i.e he blows a save, gets put in RF, then when his team get the lead back he pitches again and gets the save).

zukes · 06-10-2009, 02:53 PM

I might be wrong here, but if you are the home pitcher, do you not only need 4.2 innings to qualify for the win?

satchel · 06-10-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zukes

I might be wrong here, but if you are the home pitcher, do you not only need 4.2 innings to qualify for the win?

Rule 10.17(b)(2) says that a pitcher can win a game with four innings pitched, if the game only ends up being five innings long.

baseballbuzz · 06-10-2009, 05:31 PM

Here is the Save rule from official MLB scoring.

10.19 SAVES FOR RELIEF PITCHERS
A save is a statistic credited to a relief pitcher, as set forth in this Rule 10.19.
The official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions:
(a) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team;
(b) He is not the winning pitcher;
(c) He is credited with at least ⅓ of an inning pitched; and
(d) He satisfies one of the following conditions:
(1) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning;

(2) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces); or
(3) He pitches for at least three innings.

Wrathchild · 06-13-2009, 09:31 PM

How about this situation:

The starting pitcher leaves the game with a 1 run lead.
The reliever comes in and gives up 2 runs, both being credited to the starter.

The reliever gets a blown save and the starter is awarded the loss. Is this because he was responsible for the runners that were on base?

Curtis · 06-13-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrathchild

The starter is awarded the loss. Is this because he was responsible for the runners that were on base?

Yes.

jbergey22 · 06-13-2009, 10:41 PM

I am fairly certain this is a blown save because it wasnt certain that he was going to be credited the win at the time the lead was lost. It could have went to a pitcher that would have came in after him by rule. This would be a great trivia question.

jbergey22 · 06-13-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

This brings to mind the business about whether one player can get both a save and a blown save in one game by having 2 save chances (i.e he blows a save, gets put in RF, then when his team get the lead back he pitches again and gets the save).

Another good question the answer is no.

tysok · 06-13-2009, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I am fairly certain this is a blown save because it wasnt certain that he was going to be credited the win at the time the lead was lost. It could have went to a pitcher that would have came in after him by rule. This would be a great trivia question.

If he couldn't have gotten a save, he can't get a blown save.

In order to get a blown save someone else would have HAD to have been able to get the win, and in this case no one else but him COULD have gotten the win.

06-09-2009, 07:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
zekester91 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,122 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1x in 1 post	Blown Save? How is this a Blown Save.... F. mitchell was injured in with 2 outs in the 5th, leading 1-0, Long reliver comes in goes 4.1 and gets a Blown save... is this really one. The starter didn't go 5 so couldn't get the win... Attached Images __________________ Bobby Bowden must have a hell of a recruiting pitch, "Son if you come on down to Tallahasee, you just might be able to watch me die during practice!" The road was closed while the Hartford Police Department's bomb squad came and blew up the chicken.

06-09-2009, 08:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
Cryomaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Newark, Notts, UK Posts: 2,945 Thanks: 4,387 Thanked 301x in 232 posts	Good question. __________________

06-09-2009, 08:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
magnet Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: OTher message Board Land Posts: 4,998 Thanks: 20 Thanked 20x in 17 posts	I bet the other team tied it up before you went on to win. Am I correct? __________________ -Jeff TCBA - Minneapolis Twisters (1877 - ) 1883, 1884 Division Winners MLB 93 - Minnesota Twins (1993 - ) Haven't won anything! CL - Toronto Canadians (1962 - ) We have Juan Marichal! Six Pitchers - 2007 WINNER! 103-56, 3.25 ERA - The only 103-win season prior to the great steroid nerf of 2010.

06-09-2009, 09:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
TribeFanInNC Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,532 Thanks: 94 Thanked 268x in 209 posts	No, I think that is probably an incorrect ruling. If you are in line to get the win, you can not get a save. I would assume that would mean you can't blow a save. __________________ PEBA - Duluth Warriors

06-10-2009, 06:12 AM	#7 (permalink)
zekester91 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,122 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1x in 1 post	Yes, the other team did tie and take a 3-2 lead before a 9th inning comeback. I don't think this is a problem with the game, but with the way the rule is written as the rule would make it up to the scorer. __________________ Bobby Bowden must have a hell of a recruiting pitch, "Son if you come on down to Tallahasee, you just might be able to watch me die during practice!" The road was closed while the Hartford Police Department's bomb squad came and blew up the chicken.

06-09-2009, 10:13 PM	#5 (permalink)
professor ape Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 453 Thanks: 18 Thanked 93x in 34 posts	I think that any time a reliever gives up a lead, it is counted as a blown save.

06-10-2009, 08:59 AM	#8 (permalink)
BigRed75 Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 128 Thanks: 7 Thanked 3x in 3 posts	I think it is a problem with the game, because it should recognise that the winning pitcher never would have gotten a save in the first place because starter didn't go the required number of innings. This should be logged as a bug, because it's clearly incorrect and needs to be fixed. __________________ "A computer program follows logic, no matter how random variables are put in, it follows logic. Humans however are totally illogical and anything can happen. Julio Lugo is attempting to prove this all by himself." - jabrown6940

06-10-2009, 09:36 AM	#9 (permalink)
Wrathchild Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 286 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts Infractions: 0/2 (2)	Along with this, can the pitcher who gets the loss also be given the blown save in the same game? Is that a standard MLB rule? __________________ Wrathchild's 20th Century Puresim Replay The Almanac for Wrathchild's 20th Century Puresim Replay

06-10-2009, 02:53 PM	#13 (permalink)
zukes All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London, Ont. Canada Posts: 870 Thanks: 58 Thanked 15x in 10 posts	I might be wrong here, but if you are the home pitcher, do you not only need 4.2 innings to qualify for the win? __________________ You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel.

06-10-2009, 05:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
baseballbuzz Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Here is the Save rule from official MLB scoring. 10.19 SAVES FOR RELIEF PITCHERS A save is a statistic credited to a relief pitcher, as set forth in this Rule 10.19. The official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions: (a) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team; (b) He is not the winning pitcher; (c) He is credited with at least ⅓ of an inning pitched; and (d) He satisfies one of the following conditions: (1) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; (2) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces); or (3) He pitches for at least three innings.

06-13-2009, 09:31 PM	#16 (permalink)
Wrathchild Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 286 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts Infractions: 0/2 (2)	How about this situation: The starting pitcher leaves the game with a 1 run lead. The reliever comes in and gives up 2 runs, both being credited to the starter. The reliever gets a blown save and the starter is awarded the loss. Is this because he was responsible for the runners that were on base? __________________ Wrathchild's 20th Century Puresim Replay The Almanac for Wrathchild's 20th Century Puresim Replay

06-13-2009, 10:41 PM	#18 (permalink)
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,078 Thanks: 151 Thanked 137x in 105 posts	I am fairly certain this is a blown save because it wasnt certain that he was going to be credited the win at the time the lead was lost. It could have went to a pitcher that would have came in after him by rule. This would be a great trivia question.

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