Foul ball ends up being a hit??

Matter2003 · 06-13-2009, 10:37 PM

Hmm...this is a strange one...

baseball shown popped way foul to the left by the 3rd base dugout, but the PBP says the ball was popped up to the left, there was confusion and it drops for a base hit...no problems with that..it happens...but not when the picture of where the pop up ended is over by the 3rd base dugout...

Appears to be either a case where the ball travels in an area it shouldn't for that PBP, or where the PBP doesn't match where the ball went...

pstrickert · 06-13-2009, 11:05 PM

I created a BZ for this one. We'll see what happens.

Kitsune · 06-14-2009, 09:54 AM

Yes, I noticed with the default stadium where the ball goes seem to be off... I noticed one time it said a ball was caught in foul territory.... except it was 6 rows into the stands according to the picture.

SteveP · 06-14-2009, 01:18 PM

You can't make valid judgments by watching the ball animations. For whatever reasons, the ball animations can move to locations that aren't quite right. The best way to see what happened is to look at the game log, which will always have show a location code (e.g., 7LS) to show where the ball truly landed. The tricky part is trying to figure out what might have happened when the location code is a foul ball, but the outcome is treated as a hit. There are many ways this can happen in real life, but there is also the possibility of a bug that shows up in very rare instances.

RonCo · 06-14-2009, 01:30 PM

My defense study has found a few of these instances in v9, so I assume it's a legacy bug in some fashion.

RonCo · 06-15-2009, 01:40 PM

Cross posting this here because it seems relevant:

---------------------------------------------------

I was looking at Fly Ball data at lunch and will create a post a similare Fly Ball Map sometime. But I found an oddity that I'll post here for posterity's sake:

Foul Fly Balls are occasionally scored as hits:

Zone 7LSF = 12 singles
Zone 7LMF = 4 singles
Zone 7LDF = 2 doubles, 1 triple
Zone 9LSF = 9 singles
Zone 9LMF = 3 singles
Zone 9LSF = 6 doubles, 1 triple

This seems like it must be some type of bug.

SteveP · 06-15-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonCo

Cross posting this here because it seems relevant:

---------------------------------------------------

I was looking at Fly Ball data at lunch and will create a post a similare Fly Ball Map sometime. But I found an oddity that I'll post here for posterity's sake:

Foul Fly Balls are occasionally scored as hits:

Zone 7LSF = 12 singles
Zone 7LMF = 4 singles
Zone 7LDF = 2 doubles, 1 triple
Zone 9LSF = 9 singles
Zone 9LMF = 3 singles
Zone 9LSF = 6 doubles, 1 triple

This seems like it must be some type of bug.

The problem is figuring out what's really a bug, and what type of bug. I've been inclined to interpret the info in the game log this way:

1. A hit that is recorded as being in a 7xxF or 9xxF is ball that was fair when it passed 1st or 3rd, but was in foul territory when it actually hit the ground. Only a knowledgeable scorer (and I know there are a few on these boards

) can say whether that's a reasonable interpretation or not.

2. A hit that is recorded as landing in some other foul zone (and this happens, but very very rarely) is possibly a bug, but it's probably a reporting error (that is, the bug is in the eye candy, not in the AB outcome calculation). On the other hand, a knowledgeable scorer might tell us that this sort of thing does happen IRL -- in which case, it would be great to get an explanation.

This main thing for the OP, of course, is to understand that the ball animations are just eye candy, and not all that reliable as a basis for figuring out what happened.

Curtis · 06-15-2009, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveP

This main thing for the OP, of course, is to understand that the ball animations are just eye candy, and not all that reliable as a basis for figuring out what happened.

Which is why I turned mine off after two weeks. Balls were coming down two zones away from where the play-by-play described them, and I don't need that aggravation.

RonCo · 06-15-2009, 02:08 PM

Fair enough, but a fly ball in real life is judged fair or fould based on where it lands, not where it is when it crosses the 1B/3B bags.

I don't know where the bug is, but if it's a bug it should be chased down.

SteveP · 06-15-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonCo

Fair enough, but a fly ball in real life is judged fair or fould based on where it lands, not where it is when it crosses the 1B/3B bags.

Upon further review ... I think you may be right about that. In which case, the bug is less rare than I suggested.

RonCo · 06-15-2009, 03:27 PM

By my rough count I see 60 hits in the FOBL's first 99 games (x36 teams, so it happens about 1/1.5 fake days) that have been allocated to foul territory. These have come on all batted ball types (GB/FB/LD/Popups).

tysok · 06-15-2009, 03:38 PM

All of the in game stuff was based off of retrosheet data. If you download and look at retrosheet data you can easily find errors... it's not 100%. That's why we had a lot of (still have, but far rarer) flyballs down the left field line being caught by the first baseman, and other such mistakes.

This is probably similar.

On flyballs the location is where it landed... so you could technically have a fielder touch the ball in some manner and have it actually land in foul ground with it still being considered a fair ball and a hit to that location - but I seriously doubt that occurs in reality as common as it seems to be happening in OOTP.

RonCo · 06-15-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysok

On flyballs the location is where it landed... so you could technically have a fielder touch the ball in some manner and have it actually land in foul ground with it still being considered a fair ball and a hit to that location - but I seriously doubt that occurs in reality as common as it seems to be happening in OOTP.

I suspect it is a bug of some type. To be direct, though, to be discussing this type of issue in pbp is an indicator of how far Markus and you guys in the pbp world have brought the game. I've got a few more oddities in my defense/lab thread...if I ever get it done I'll package them up and drop them off here.

06-13-2009, 10:37 PM	#1 (permalink)
Matter2003 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: In the vicinity of Buffalo,NY Posts: 1,627 Thanks: 2 Thanked 9x in 8 posts	Foul ball ends up being a hit?? Hmm...this is a strange one... baseball shown popped way foul to the left by the 3rd base dugout, but the PBP says the ball was popped up to the left, there was confusion and it drops for a base hit...no problems with that..it happens...but not when the picture of where the pop up ended is over by the 3rd base dugout... Appears to be either a case where the ball travels in an area it shouldn't for that PBP, or where the PBP doesn't match where the ball went... __________________ Follow me on Twitter @ ILoveBarbecue Check out my All Things Barbecue Blog

06-15-2009, 03:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
tysok Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,924 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9x in 5 posts	All of the in game stuff was based off of retrosheet data. If you download and look at retrosheet data you can easily find errors... it's not 100%. That's why we had a lot of (still have, but far rarer) flyballs down the left field line being caught by the first baseman, and other such mistakes. This is probably similar. On flyballs the location is where it landed... so you could technically have a fielder touch the ball in some manner and have it actually land in foul ground with it still being considered a fair ball and a hit to that location - but I seriously doubt that occurs in reality as common as it seems to be happening in OOTP. __________________ I don't know about you, but as for me, the question has already been answered: Should we be here? Yes! Jack Buck, September 17, 2001 It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. I firmly believe that any man's finest hour... is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi) I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom. (George S. Patton)

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06-13-2009, 11:05 PM	#2 (permalink)
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 5,889 Thanks: 331 Thanked 385x in 223 posts	I created a BZ for this one. We'll see what happens.

06-14-2009, 09:54 AM	#3 (permalink)
Kitsune Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4x in 2 posts	Yes, I noticed with the default stadium where the ball goes seem to be off... I noticed one time it said a ball was caught in foul territory.... except it was 6 rows into the stands according to the picture.

06-14-2009, 01:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
SteveP Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,776 Thanks: 6 Thanked 261x in 198 posts	You can't make valid judgments by watching the ball animations. For whatever reasons, the ball animations can move to locations that aren't quite right. The best way to see what happened is to look at the game log, which will always have show a location code (e.g., 7LS) to show where the ball truly landed. The tricky part is trying to figure out what might have happened when the location code is a foul ball, but the outcome is treated as a hit. There are many ways this can happen in real life, but there is also the possibility of a bug that shows up in very rare instances.

06-14-2009, 01:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 6,566 Thanks: 21 Thanked 149x in 67 posts	My defense study has found a few of these instances in v9, so I assume it's a legacy bug in some fashion.

06-15-2009, 01:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 6,566 Thanks: 21 Thanked 149x in 67 posts	Cross posting this here because it seems relevant: --------------------------------------------------- I was looking at Fly Ball data at lunch and will create a post a similare Fly Ball Map sometime. But I found an oddity that I'll post here for posterity's sake: Foul Fly Balls are occasionally scored as hits: Zone 7LSF = 12 singles Zone 7LMF = 4 singles Zone 7LDF = 2 doubles, 1 triple Zone 9LSF = 9 singles Zone 9LMF = 3 singles Zone 9LSF = 6 doubles, 1 triple This seems like it must be some type of bug.

06-15-2009, 02:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 6,566 Thanks: 21 Thanked 149x in 67 posts	Fair enough, but a fly ball in real life is judged fair or fould based on where it lands, not where it is when it crosses the 1B/3B bags. I don't know where the bug is, but if it's a bug it should be chased down.

06-15-2009, 03:27 PM	#11 (permalink)
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 6,566 Thanks: 21 Thanked 149x in 67 posts	By my rough count I see 60 hits in the FOBL's first 99 games (x36 teams, so it happens about 1/1.5 fake days) that have been allocated to foul territory. These have come on all batted ball types (GB/FB/LD/Popups).