Do pinch hitters K a lot?

[PhillieFever]

This is absolutely a bug,Ill post it in BZ in the morning.In my. League I,ve sent 14 punch hitters up and every one has struck out

[gte842d]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

This is absolutely a bug,Ill post it in BZ in the morning.In my. League I,ve sent 14 punch hitters up and every one has struck out

hope you aren't too hungover tomorrow morning, thanks! glad to know it wasn't just me and the other guy

[gte842d]

i'm being such a pain in the ass on this

[gte842d]

ok so i set this game aside for months because this was so annoying. downloaded the most recent patches... and it still seems like pinchitters k all the time way mroe often than expected

for the love of god, tell me the patch has "fixed" this problem in the last 3 months

in my first 3 games, i've pinch hit 4 times, with 4 k's... i mean c'mon

when I click "check for updates" I get this...

Your version of OOTP10 is up-to-date!

There are no updates or patches available for your game.

so it looks like nothing has been done about this problem for 3 months

[battists]

Has anyone seen this issue in anything other than the Major League roster set?

[TribeFanInNC]

Yeah, I've noticed that pinch hitters seem to K to a higher rate in my solo fictional league. But, I don't have any concrete numbers on this; it's just my empirical impression.

[TribeFanInNC]

Upon further review, I see this behavior in my fictional online league too and there is some data to back this up (though admittedly there is a small sample size).

K rates for my top 5 pinch hitters for the season thus far (through mid-July):

Hernandez - 16 K/102 PA overall (15% K rate), 7 K/12 PA as PH (58%)
Vezina - 23 K/241 PA overall (9.5%), 8 K/23 PA as PH (35%)
Cannon - 45 K/235 PA overall (19%), 6 K/24 PA as PH (25%)
Gunn - 35 K/139 PA overall (25%), 5 K/13 PA as PH (38%)
Morton - 31 K/93 PA overall (33%), 11 K/14 PA as PH (79%)

I would expect PH K rates to be higher as a PH in general (batter is cold, probably facing an RP that has a little more stuff, etc...). Two of the five batters above (Cannon, Gunn) are probably in the right ballpark. But some of those are a little too high IMO and seems to back up what I've been empirically seeing in my solo league while playing out games. Also keep in mind the overall rates above include the PH appearances, so the non-PH overall would be significantly lower.

Data is using 10.2.16 PC patch.

[TribeFanInNC]

BTW, I looked up the MLB K rates for 2009. K rate is 18% overall and about 25% while pinch hitting. So anything approaching 50% (or beyond) is too high.

I submitted this thread as BZ 3580 for Markus to try to look at for the final patch. We'll see if he has a chance to adjust this or not. I make no promises.

[SteveP]

I just did a check on my historical league (non-DH of course, so lots of PHing). No problem. I can, of course, find PHers who have struck out 30-50%, but I have to regard that as a sample size phenomenon, because if I look at it on a team-wise basis, over all the teams, the K rate for PHing is probably somewhere in the 20-25% range.

I have checked this before, with other historical seasons, and never seen a problem.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by battists

Has anyone seen this issue in anything other than the Major League roster set?

Yes.

[TribeFanInNC]

Good info Steve.

[GMahler]

I have simmed into 2020 and I have to agree that pinch hitters do strike out more than the norm in the game....I became concious of this fact early on but simply wondered if I was in the wrong...after reading these posts, I now know that I am not alone...

[gte842d]

I'm playing AL now just because it became so unbearable. so is someone working on fixing this problem?

[TribeFanInNC]

Originally Posted by gte842d

so is someone working on fixing this problem?

I've logged it as a bug for the developer to look at. We're trying to determine if it is specific to a certain type of game or not. I presented some additional data as well. Unfortunately, it is VERY late in the development cycle. So even if he thinks it is a problem, it might get tabled until next year just due to time considerations.

We'll try, that's all I can say at this point.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by TribeFanInNC

Unfortunately, it is VERY late in the development cycle. So even if he thinks it is a problem, it might get tabled until next year just due to time considerations.

If this next patch is the last patch, then the patch needs to be delayed until this is fixed.

[BMW]

Yes, this is an ugly, ugly bug.

[TribeFanInNC]

If you guys have some more data to support this, please post. Especially with fictional leagues. Unfortunately, I've only been able to give maybe 15 data points from online leagues reports because that's all I have access to at work (don't tell my boss ).

Maybe somebody can show some league K rates for a whole fictional season (both overall and pinch hitting). I can do it but not until tonight or tomorrow.

[Malleus Dei]

The PH K rate in my current fictional league is 46.7%.

[Mike Donlin]

In my fictional league (16-team league, no DH), which just finished the 1929 season, pinch hitters batted .258/.307/.359/.666 and struck out in 10.3 percent of their plate appearances. In contrast, batters in general (including pitchers) hit .288/.350/.413/.763 and struck out in 7.6 percent of their plate appearances.

That seems about right to me.

[TribeFanInNC]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

The PH K rate in my current fictional league is 46.7%.

That matches about what I've seen too.