Do pinch hitters K a lot? - Page 4

Tony M · 09-22-2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

I have. But to each their own.

If this is happening every season can you at the end of one of them do a dump to csv and upload the csvs to the FTP server.

gte842d · 09-22-2009, 11:40 AM

its not too hard to figure out somethings wrong. do this. start a new season with mlb rosters. pick any team. play a game. pinch hit as many times as you can. then post here the results. this should be fun.

Tony M · 09-22-2009, 12:05 PM

OK. I've done it with the MLB 2009 rosters and yes I'm getting 46% K-rate. Given that this is at variance with a fictional league, I'd have to say the problem is with the roster set and not the game.

t-bone shuffle · 09-22-2009, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony M

OK. I've done it with the MLB 2009 rosters and yes I'm getting 46% K-rate. Given that this is at variance with a fictional league, I'd have to say the problem is with the roster set and not the game.

This was BZ'd this summer in beta. It's currently marked for later. It's definitely an issue for the mlb roster set only.

gte842d · 09-22-2009, 12:30 PM

also consider ph's dont only k a lot, but they rarely get a hit even. might as well fix both those problems at the same time, not just the striking out.

you know how annoying it has been with runners on 3rd less than 2 out, and you can't even put the ball in play when the pitcher comes up to bat and you pinch hit for him? consistently- seemingly every time?

Bumstead · 09-22-2009, 01:08 PM

Just reading the posts, it seems that the people having the issue with the PH K rates are playing out their games and the people not having the issue with the PH K rates are simulating their games....anyone else notice this? I play out my games, so this concerns me. I would have to look at my Cincinnati Reds 2009 season to see what that looks like in total but I recall many K's...of course it was mostly Lance Nix, Jerry Hairston and Adam Rosales...but still...

Bum

battists · 09-22-2009, 01:28 PM

There's also the possibility that there are multiple, unrelated bugs in the mix here...

Tony M · 09-22-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

There's also the possibility that there are multiple, unrelated bugs in the mix here...

I got 47% K as PH in the MLB rosters and only 19% in a fictional MAL setup would tend to point the finger at the roster set.

TribeFanInNC · 09-22-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumstead

Just reading the posts, it seems that the people having the issue with the PH K rates are playing out their games and the people not having the issue with the PH K rates are simulating their games....anyone else notice this?

I had this thought as well. I analyzed K rates in my solo fictional league and found my team was the indeed highest (40% Ks as PH) but the rest of the league was also too high (ranging from like 28%-35%). I have a 12 team league with a slightly unbalanced schedule (some but not equal interleague play), so 5-10% of the other teams have their games played out as well (i.e. when I am playing them). But that doesn't account for the difference between the 32% Ks as PH and my overall K rate of 15%.

Also I have seen this behavior in at least 2 fictional online leagues; I posted this data in the bug report. They obviously do not play out any games. But this data is not as convincing since I only selected a few points because I didn't have time to scour the league reports.

TribeFanInNC · 09-22-2009, 02:38 PM

A couple other odd points I'll bring up in case they add up to something or there is some commonality.

a) My pitchers almost all have like 1s and 2s for batting ratings. The BA for pitchers has to be well under .100 for my non-DH league.

b) I think my pinch hitters have a similar sub-.100 success rate, but I haven't actually calculated it yet. I have found some guys that have had a little PH success. Much to endgame's comment a couple pages back, I wonder if some guys are much better a PH than others.

c) My league is simmed ahead 20 yrs with history deleted prior to starting. If it is a development issue, it seems it would manifest itself worse in this scenario.

Thanks to Tony and Steve for sticking with this a little, even if you think it is suspect.

TribeFanInNC · 09-22-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony M

I got 47% K as PH in the MLB rosters and only 19% in a fictional MAL setup would tend to point the finger at the roster set.

This sentence spurred another thought. So why does it happen in the roster set? It can't just be as simple as the ratings for the bench guys aren't good enough or the RPs are just too good. I'm sure there are plenty of semi-regulars in there where their pinch hitting is significantly worse than their regular play like we are seeing.

I have trouble just writing this off as a problem with the ratings in the MLB roster set. That doesn't really make sense to me. Also I think the problem is probably more than just Ks, may include BA and BB rate as well.

Mostly thinking out loud while I'm avoiding work. I hope this spurs something useful.

Malleus Dei · 09-22-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony M

If this is happening every season can you at the end of one of them do a dump to csv and upload the csvs to the FTP server.

If I was a beta tester, sure. But since version 6.5, I'm not one.

gte842d · 09-22-2009, 07:20 PM

I can verify all my PH suckiness has come when I am actively "managing" the games and not simulating them. And by the rare chance they don't K, they do make an out for sure. I'd anecdotally say the K % is closer to 75.

GMahler · 09-22-2009, 11:53 PM

I wonder if there is any difference using one-pitch mode v. pitch by pitch? I use one pitch mode and see the high ph/k ratios....

endgame · 09-23-2009, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

If I was a beta tester, sure. But since version 6.5, I'm not one.

It'll haunt me if I don't ask. What are you trying to say here, MD?

Malleus Dei · 09-23-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

It'll haunt me if I don't ask. What are you trying to say here, MD?

That I haven't been an OOTP beta tester for a very long time?

endgame · 09-23-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

That I haven't been an OOTP beta tester for a very long time?

Okay. Got that. And that prohibits you from dumping csv files and uploading them? I think Tony's trying to flesh out whether there are any similarities between the roster set- that DOES have problems -and any fictional leagues that appear to have them.

Malleus Dei · 09-24-2009, 11:13 AM

I guess the fact that I don't do that sort of thing any more because I quit being a tester a long time ago somehow didn't come across.

Tony M · 09-24-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

I guess the fact that I don't do that sort of thing any more because I quit being a tester a long time ago somehow didn't come across.

That's a shame because if we could see some sample data from a fictional league that was having the same issue as the MLB rosters it could be compared to the ones that appear to be working fine.

TribeFanInNC · 09-24-2009, 12:21 PM

Unfortunately my evenings have been pretty hectic this week as my wife and daughter have both been sick. I have some data that I will try to upload tonight provided my daughter cooperates.

I wish I had more time to play with this.

09-22-2009, 12:05 PM	#63 (permalink)
Tony M Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Here Posts: 6,078 Blog Entries: 3 Thanked 299x in 172 posts	OK. I've done it with the MLB 2009 rosters and yes I'm getting 46% K-rate. Given that this is at variance with a fictional league, I'd have to say the problem is with the roster set and not the game. __________________ This signature is intentionally blank

09-22-2009, 01:28 PM	#67 (permalink)
battists OOTP Developments Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 17,024 Blog Entries: 7 Thanked 703x in 194 posts	There's also the possibility that there are multiple, unrelated bugs in the mix here... __________________ Buy our games! \|\| Follow us on Twitter \|\| Follow us on Facebook! OOTP Knowledge Base \|\| Get Technical Support Note: I am currently on hiatus from my OOTP Developments duties. If you need help, please go through the Support Central link above!

09-22-2009, 02:38 PM	#70 (permalink)
TribeFanInNC Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,498 Thanked 253x in 204 posts	A couple other odd points I'll bring up in case they add up to something or there is some commonality. a) My pitchers almost all have like 1s and 2s for batting ratings. The BA for pitchers has to be well under .100 for my non-DH league. b) I think my pinch hitters have a similar sub-.100 success rate, but I haven't actually calculated it yet. I have found some guys that have had a little PH success. Much to endgame's comment a couple pages back, I wonder if some guys are much better a PH than others. c) My league is simmed ahead 20 yrs with history deleted prior to starting. If it is a development issue, it seems it would manifest itself worse in this scenario. Thanks to Tony and Steve for sticking with this a little, even if you think it is suspect. __________________ PEBA - Duluth Warriors

09-24-2009, 12:21 PM	#80 (permalink)
TribeFanInNC Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,498 Thanked 253x in 204 posts	Unfortunately my evenings have been pretty hectic this week as my wife and daughter have both been sick. I have some data that I will try to upload tonight provided my daughter cooperates. I wish I had more time to play with this. __________________ PEBA - Duluth Warriors

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09-22-2009, 11:40 AM	#62 (permalink)
gte842d Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 61 Thanked 1x in 1 post	its not too hard to figure out somethings wrong. do this. start a new season with mlb rosters. pick any team. play a game. pinch hit as many times as you can. then post here the results. this should be fun.

09-22-2009, 12:30 PM	#65 (permalink)
gte842d Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 61 Thanked 1x in 1 post	also consider ph's dont only k a lot, but they rarely get a hit even. might as well fix both those problems at the same time, not just the striking out. you know how annoying it has been with runners on 3rd less than 2 out, and you can't even put the ball in play when the pitcher comes up to bat and you pinch hit for him? consistently- seemingly every time?

09-22-2009, 01:08 PM	#66 (permalink)
Bumstead Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 44 Thanked 2x in 2 posts	Just reading the posts, it seems that the people having the issue with the PH K rates are playing out their games and the people not having the issue with the PH K rates are simulating their games....anyone else notice this? I play out my games, so this concerns me. I would have to look at my Cincinnati Reds 2009 season to see what that looks like in total but I recall many K's...of course it was mostly Lance Nix, Jerry Hairston and Adam Rosales...but still... Bum

09-22-2009, 07:20 PM	#73 (permalink)
gte842d Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 61 Thanked 1x in 1 post	I can verify all my PH suckiness has come when I am actively "managing" the games and not simulating them. And by the rare chance they don't K, they do make an out for sure. I'd anecdotally say the K % is closer to 75.

09-22-2009, 11:53 PM	#74 (permalink)
GMahler Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 43	I wonder if there is any difference using one-pitch mode v. pitch by pitch? I use one pitch mode and see the high ph/k ratios....