I think the new pitching system is confusing OOTP.

SackAttack · 06-18-2009, 03:50 AM

Keep seeing guys with nil stamina but three or four good pitches (your elite closers, say) get thrust into the starting rotation.

I posted a few days ago about the AI doing it with Joakim Soria. This time, Francisco Rodriguez.

For that matter, I saw in the amateur draft, two pitchers. One with solid stamina and two great pitches, and another with four okay-to-good pitches and 1/10 stamina, and the game was recommending the latter as a starter and the former as a reliever.

While I can see the 2-pitch guy as a reliever, it seems like the game is valuing quantity of pitches over quality of pitches/pitcher endurance.

Anybody else seeing this?

SackAttack · 06-18-2009, 04:02 AM

Huh. two games later, Huston Street, with three good pitches and '4' stamina, is starting for the Mets.

I'm starting to wonder now if that might not be some kind of rotation exploit; why is the AI focusing so heavily on having back-end-of-bullpen guys starting games?

andymac · 06-18-2009, 04:09 AM

Is this using the 2009 MLB league from version X or a converted league? What rating scale are you using?

SackAttack · 06-18-2009, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

Is this using the 2009 MLB league from version X or a converted league? What rating scale are you using?

the former.

Ratings 1-10.

But I always thought the more vague ratings scales were to make the game more challenging for the user, kind of like how the AI gets to ignore the 'warmup rule.'

So I don't know how much that matters.

megamanmatt · 06-18-2009, 06:02 AM

Well the ratings become a bit more vague as the rating goes down. If you were to look at it from a scale of 1-20 for instance, someone with an endurance rating of 5 - 7 would still make an effective starter, being able to throw maybe 85 - 90 pitches. He just would likely have less lee way in terms of how many pitches he could throw so he would come out earlier than someone with a 17 rating, who could throw 120+ pitches. So he'd be an effective starter, just probably wouldn't get past inning number 6 or 7.

NCBeachBum · 06-18-2009, 06:45 AM

I'm about 90% sure this was one of the things that I read was to be addressed in the first patch.

Broth32 · 06-18-2009, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCBeachBum

I'm about 90% sure this was one of the things that I read was to be addressed in the first patch.

If this does get addressed in the patch how do you guys think it will work for an existing league? Will the AI just adjust and put these MR/CL back in the pen?

andymac · 06-18-2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broth32

If this does get addressed in the patch how do you guys think it will work for an existing league? Will the AI just adjust and put these MR/CL back in the pen?

That depends on what the issue is. I don't think this is an AI issue, but rather a roster set issue. If it is corrected through ratings edits then it would only be effective for brand new leagues.

If these guys have at least 3 quality pitches and a stamina of 3+ (out of 10), they AI can and probably should use them in the rotation.

megamanmatt · 06-18-2009, 02:16 PM

From what i've heard it isn't the AI, most of it is the roster like andymac said so it will only fix games created after the patch.

Malleus Dei · 06-18-2009, 02:36 PM

Whatever causes it, it needs to be fixed.

PSUColonel · 06-18-2009, 02:57 PM

why wouldn't it be AI related? I don't see where a roster set would/could be responsible for this??

andymac · 06-18-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Whatever causes it, it needs to be fixed.

I think this is even debatable. Would it really be surprising to find out that Francisco Rodriguez could be a useful starting pitcher?

andymac · 06-18-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

why wouldn't it be AI related? I don't see where a roster set would/could be responsible for this??

The AI is making these guys starters because they have at least 3+ quality pitches and enough stamina to start. That is exactly what it should do if the ratings that were given to them make them one of the better starters on the team. If you want to guarantee that good relievers like Francisco Rodriguez never start...you have to give them a lower stamina than 4 (out of 10).

megamanmatt · 06-18-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Whatever causes it, it needs to be fixed.

Is there anything you don't complain about MD?

MimesisBTG · 06-18-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

The AI is making these guys starters because they have at least 3+ quality pitches and enough stamina to start. That is exactly what it should do if the ratings that were given to them make them one of the better starters on the team. If you want to guarantee that good relievers like Francisco Rodriguez never start...you have to give them a lower stamina than 4 (out of 10).

Yeah but pitchers with stamina ratings of 2 out of 10 are being listed as "suggested" starters as well. My issue is that I don't want any pitcher as a suggested starter who does not have the capacity to throw 90-100 effective pitches.

PhillieFever · 06-18-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Huh. two games later, Huston Street, with three good pitches and '4' stamina, is starting for the Mets.

I'm starting to wonder now if that might not be some kind of rotation exploit; why is the AI focusing so heavily on having back-end-of-bullpen guys starting games?

The ratings for the MLB set were made to be used on a 1-100 or 20-80 scale.Try that and see if it helps,because I'm using a 20-80 scale and I haven't seen this at all.

SackAttack · 06-19-2009, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

I think this is even debatable. Would it really be surprising to find out that Francisco Rodriguez could be a useful starting pitcher?

Oh, I didn't mention; 5-9, 5.80 with his ratings when pressed into service as a starter.

Soria, as I mentioned in another thread, had flashes of brilliance interspersed with stretches of mediocrity, but K-Rod didn't even have that.

SackAttack · 06-19-2009, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MimesisBTG

Yeah but pitchers with stamina ratings of 2 out of 10 are being listed as "suggested" starters as well. My issue is that I don't want any pitcher as a suggested starter who does not have the capacity to throw 90-100 effective pitches.

Strangely, Jon Lester got turned into an MR, with stamina of 8/10, and he can barely throw 70. So damn weird.

sutto · 06-19-2009, 04:32 AM

It's not a roster issue. My imported fictional universe has the problem, where career bullpenners are now starters with a 3-4 out of 10 endurance rating. I don't mind too much as I can explain it away in my own little universe, and it hasn't happened too often.

jar2574 · 06-19-2009, 08:12 AM

I wish the Royals used Soria as a starter, which would give us Grienke, Meche and Soria as a good 1-2-3 combo. And I'm not the only Royal's fan that thinks this.

So I don't think it's horrible of the game to do that, unless Soria's endurance is below a 7 on a 1-20 scale. That's the cut-off I use for starters, and I thought that's what the game used.

06-18-2009, 03:50 AM	#1 (permalink)
SackAttack All Star Starter Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,083 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1x in 1 post	I think the new pitching system is confusing OOTP. Keep seeing guys with nil stamina but three or four good pitches (your elite closers, say) get thrust into the starting rotation. I posted a few days ago about the AI doing it with Joakim Soria. This time, Francisco Rodriguez. For that matter, I saw in the amateur draft, two pitchers. One with solid stamina and two great pitches, and another with four okay-to-good pitches and 1/10 stamina, and the game was recommending the latter as a starter and the former as a reliever. While I can see the 2-pitch guy as a reliever, it seems like the game is valuing quantity of pitches over quality of pitches/pitcher endurance. Anybody else seeing this?

06-18-2009, 04:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
andymac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Effingham, IL Posts: 5,700 Thanks: 4 Thanked 17x in 13 posts	Is this using the 2009 MLB league from version X or a converted league? What rating scale are you using? __________________ June Madness: Links FTB: andymac

06-18-2009, 06:45 AM	#6 (permalink)
NCBeachBum All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Topsail Island, NC, USA Posts: 778 Thanks: 9 Thanked 13x in 10 posts	I'm about 90% sure this was one of the things that I read was to be addressed in the first patch. __________________ And ain't that a shame, shame, shame Shame, shame, the way you do Oh, it's a shame, shame, shame Shame, shame on you

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06-18-2009, 04:02 AM	#2 (permalink)
SackAttack All Star Starter Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,083 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1x in 1 post	Huh. two games later, Huston Street, with three good pitches and '4' stamina, is starting for the Mets. I'm starting to wonder now if that might not be some kind of rotation exploit; why is the AI focusing so heavily on having back-end-of-bullpen guys starting games?

06-18-2009, 06:02 AM	#5 (permalink)
megamanmatt All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lakeville, Minnesota Posts: 1,602 Thanks: 90 Thanked 359x in 223 posts Infractions: 3/0 (0)	Well the ratings become a bit more vague as the rating goes down. If you were to look at it from a scale of 1-20 for instance, someone with an endurance rating of 5 - 7 would still make an effective starter, being able to throw maybe 85 - 90 pitches. He just would likely have less lee way in terms of how many pitches he could throw so he would come out earlier than someone with a 17 rating, who could throw 120+ pitches. So he'd be an effective starter, just probably wouldn't get past inning number 6 or 7.

06-18-2009, 02:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
megamanmatt All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lakeville, Minnesota Posts: 1,602 Thanks: 90 Thanked 359x in 223 posts Infractions: 3/0 (0)	From what i've heard it isn't the AI, most of it is the roster like andymac said so it will only fix games created after the patch.

06-18-2009, 02:57 PM	#11 (permalink)
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,985 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 163 Thanked 234x in 140 posts	why wouldn't it be AI related? I don't see where a roster set would/could be responsible for this??

06-19-2009, 04:32 AM	#19 (permalink)
sutto Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 59 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1x in 1 post	It's not a roster issue. My imported fictional universe has the problem, where career bullpenners are now starters with a 3-4 out of 10 endurance rating. I don't mind too much as I can explain it away in my own little universe, and it hasn't happened too often.

06-19-2009, 08:12 AM	#20 (permalink)
jar2574 Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 391 Thanks: 62 Thanked 24x in 18 posts	I wish the Royals used Soria as a starter, which would give us Grienke, Meche and Soria as a good 1-2-3 combo. And I'm not the only Royal's fan that thinks this. So I don't think it's horrible of the game to do that, unless Soria's endurance is below a 7 on a 1-20 scale. That's the cut-off I use for starters, and I thought that's what the game used.