A Few Observations

[Kian]

First I want to say congrats to the developers for the most solid release to date. I have a few things that in my opinion should be considered for tweaking.

First, I don't think it should take more than a 1/2 inning for a pitcher to warm up. For example, my team comes to bat, I warm up a pitcher, and I go 3 up 3 down. When my team takes the field, the pitcher should just about always be warmed up. Quite often this is not the case.

Secondly, it seems whenever there is a tough ground ball to 3rd base with nobody on, the runner gets gunned down just about every time. In reality that is a very difficult play especially when the fielder needs to charge the ball and barehand it to even have a chance to throw out the runner. My lead-off hitter has 19/20 speed but on a tough grounder to 3rd, he is routinely thrown out.

Thanks.

[Fenway]

I agree about warming up; it shouldn't take so long. Also, I wish I had a clear idea whether there any downsides to warming up a pitcher -- does the mere act of warming up tire him out? If not, I could just put two guys in the bullpen for the whole game.

[Kian]

The warm-up rule is especially painful for the national League managers. To draw the picture again, my team comes to bat late in the game, my pitcher is scheduled to bat so I immediately warm up the pen. I pinch hit for the pitcher, still go 3 up 3 down, and to my dismay my pitcher is still warming up when I'm forced to bring in a pitcher for the pinch hitter.

In order for me to get around this, I often warm up 2 pitchers so that I bring in one semi-warmed up pitcher for one batter to give the other guy a chance to finish warming up. I am not happy that I have to waste a pitcher on this.

That brings up another question, when a pitcher is injured, does the replacement pitcher enter the game cold? Just to be sure, I put in a cold pitcher and warm up 2 others imeediately to replace him ASAP.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Kian

The warm-up rule is especially painful for the national League managers. To draw the picture again, my team comes to bat late in the game, my pitcher is scheduled to bat so I immediately warm up the pen. I pinch hit for the pitcher, still go 3 up 3 down, and to my dismay my pitcher is still warming up when I'm forced to bring in a pitcher for the pinch hitter.

In order for me to get around this, I often warm up 2 pitchers so that I bring in one semi-warmed up pitcher for one batter to give the other guy a chance to finish warming up. I am not happy that I have to waste a pitcher on this.

That brings up another question, when a pitcher is injured, does the replacement pitcher enter the game cold? Just to be sure, I put in a cold pitcher and warm up 2 others imeediately to replace him ASAP.

No more painful than it is for an AL Manager. The AL Manager still has to warm the pitcher up the same amount of time as the NL Manager.

I never use the warm-up option in game since it is only eye candy as far as the AI is concerned.

[toxicavenger74]

From my observations it takes 15 pitches to warm up a pitcher. A visit to the mound counts as 5 pitches. I know this was true in V9. V10 seems to be very close to this.

[Kian]

I am not talking about how many pitches it takes to warm up. My point is there could be 7 pitches in an inning, if I warm up the pitcher before the 1st batter comes to the plate, my pitcher should be warm when my team takes the field. Let's not forget that the new pitcher gets to toss warm-up pitches before the first batter comes to the plate.

If I am the home team winning the game in the top of the 8th by a score of 1-0, I should not have to warm up my closer in the top of the 8th to get him warm to pitch the top of the 9th. He should start warming up in the bottom of the 8th and be easily ready to start the 9th.

[Antonin]

Originally Posted by Kian

First, I don't think it should take more than a 1/2 inning for a pitcher to warm up. For example, my team comes to bat, I warm up a pitcher, and I go 3 up 3 down. When my team takes the field, the pitcher should just about always be warmed up. Quite often this is not the case.

In my experience, it never takes more than half an inning for a pitcher to warm up. If my pitcher has a high pitch count at the end of the other team's at-bat, I begin warming up a new pitcher right before my team's first at-bat. He's always ready when my team's at-bat ends.

[toxicavenger74]

Originally Posted by Kian

I am not talking about how many pitches it takes to warm up. My point is there could be 7 pitches in an inning, if I warm up the pitcher before the 1st batter comes to the plate, my pitcher should be warm when my team takes the field. Let's not forget that the new pitcher gets to toss warm-up pitches before the first batter comes to the plate.

If I am the home team winning the game in the top of the 8th by a score of 1-0, I should not have to warm up my closer in the top of the 8th to get him warm to pitch the top of the 9th. He should start warming up in the bottom of the 8th and be easily ready to start the 9th.

There is only one way to indicate the movement of time in a programmed baseball game and that is outs or pitches. What you are asking for is the pitch number needed to warm up a pitcher be lowered.

To do it by outs would limit the manager even more.

There could be an either or situation possibly programmed in which would say 15 pitchers or if the half inning ends/starts.

[Kian]

I guess what I'm saying is regardless if the game is programmed by pitches or outs, the pitcher should automatically be warm when my team goes out on the field if I warmed up my pitcher at the start of the inning prior when my team was at bat. If that cannot be programmed and it has to go by pitches, have the code add as many pitches necessary after the 3rd out so the pitcher is fully ready to pitch the next inning.

I am not saying this happens all the time but in my opinion it should not happen at all or <5% of the time. As a NL manager, I am noticing this too many times when I know my pitcher will get an AB this inning and I start warming up my pen before the first AB.

[phillosopherp]

Originally Posted by Fenway

I agree about warming up; it shouldn't take so long. Also, I wish I had a clear idea whether there any downsides to warming up a pitcher -- does the mere act of warming up tire him out? If not, I could just put two guys in the bullpen for the whole game.

No the warm up rule is more cosmetic then it is functional. He does not tire, either when warming up or if left in to warm up the whole game. You can game it this way but it is exactly that gamey, you choice if you want to cheat yourself that way.

Also note that the AI does not warm up in this way.


Unless of course something major changed in 10 but I don't think so since I betatested the game...lol

[Fenway]

You can game it this way but it is exactly that gamey, you choice if you want to cheat yourself that way.

Oh, I don't want to cheat that way. Actually, I use the warmup rule in order to give a mild advantage to the AI, which (as I understand it) is not at all hampered by the warmup rule. Mostly I was just curious what the mechanics of the warmup rule are.

15 pitches, eh? I'll watch more closely next time. It seems to me a guy is rarely ready in less than a half-inning, but maybe I'm wrong.

[toxicavenger74]

Originally Posted by Fenway

Oh, I don't want to cheat that way. Actually, I use the warmup rule in order to give a mild advantage to the AI, which (as I understand it) is not at all hampered by the warmup rule. Mostly I was just curious what the mechanics of the warmup rule are.

15 pitches, eh? I'll watch more closely next time. It seems to me a guy is rarely ready in less than a half-inning, but maybe I'm wrong.

I can assure you that it is 15 pitches or very close to it and that a mound visit counts as 5 pitches. However, in reality 15 pitches is a long time. That should be at least one out, most likey two....again most of the time.

Also, just to provide some clarity. Baseball prospectus indicates that on average there are just over 5 pitches per out.

[Electrovik]

Originally Posted by Kian

I am not talking about how many pitches it takes to warm up. My point is there could be 7 pitches in an inning, if I warm up the pitcher before the 1st batter comes to the plate, my pitcher should be warm when my team takes the field.

I don't think that he should be warm everytime when your team takes the field. Don't forget that, at the moment you assign your reliever in the bullpen, you 1st hitter of the inning is technically already at the plate. So if the opposing pitcher retires your 3 hitters rapidly (let's say 3 pitches), there's no way that he is gonna be ready for the start of the next inning!

You should suggest an between inning interface that would take place immediately after the 3rd out of an inning, allowing you to call the bullpen before the inning is started. That would give your pitcher more time to warm up.

You could also deactivate the warmup option if it doesn't suit your need. All I know, is that I kinda like it this way, never knowing if my pitcher is gonna be ready for the next inning. If the pitcher was to be automatically warm after my turn at-bat, I would definitely stop using this option because it would be too predictable.

[Erik W.]

The problem is that having a 15 pitch warm-up time ignores the fact that the guy in the bullpen isn't throwing warm-up tosses one-for-one with the number of pitches in the game. (Sorry if the wording isn't clear on that. Hopped up on migraine pills and couldn't think of a better way to put it.) A warming reliever could actually throw 40-50 times in the span of 15 pitches. The number of pitches the game requires for a reliever to be warm needs to be reduced.

I turn the option off anyway since (last time I checked) the CPU isn't required to warm up pitchers at all.

[toxicavenger74]

Originally Posted by Electrovik

I don't think that he should be warm everytime when your team takes the field. Don't forget that, at the moment you assign your reliever in the bullpen, you 1st hitter of the inning is technically already at the plate. So if the opposing pitcher retires your 3 hitters rapidly (let's say 3 pitches), there's no way that he is gonna be ready for the start of the next inning!

You should suggest an between inning interface that would take place immediately after the 3rd out of an inning, allowing you to call the bullpen before the inning is started. That would give your pitcher more time to warm up.

You could also deactivate the warmup option if it doesn't suit your need. All I know, is that I kinda like it this way, never knowing if my pitcher is gonna be ready for the next inning. If the pitcher was to be automatically warm after my turn at-bat, I would definitely stop using this option because it would be too predictable.

I agree with this. Also, how could it be improved. The only way is to decrease the amount of pitches needed in game to warm up a pitcher in the bullpen. You could put in other ways to obtain time for a pitcher to warm up such as throwing over to 1st but then you'll get people throwing over to 1st 15 times to essentially stall for the bullpen guy to be warmed up.

So, really I think to improve on it should be to increase the mound visit to be equal to 8-9 pitches and for the bullpen guy to be ready in about 10 pitches with a little variation to account for different player types.

[jasonn29tn14]

I never use the warmup option myself. If it were implemented a little differently, and then AI actually had to warm up their pitchers I might change my mind.