The playoffs are a joke

jg2977 · 07-08-2009, 04:36 PM

Check out the inaugural season of this new league that I just started. The Boston Red Sox, who finished 76-86, won a weak American League East in a one-game playoff over Baltimore. They beat Detroit in the ALDS 3-2, Texas in the ALCS 4-3, and San Francisco in the World Series 4-1.

fredandres · 07-08-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jg2977

Check out the inaugural season of this new league that I just started. The Boston Red Sox, who finished 76-86, won a weak American League East in a one-game playoff over Baltimore. They beat Detroit in the ALDS 3-2, Texas in the ALCS 4-3, and San Francisco in the World Series 4-1.

This looks like an anomaly. I noticed you're playing with a modern league structure in 1961. Is this a replay league? Did the Red Sox get hot near the playoffs? More information might help us determine why this happened.

tysok · 07-08-2009, 04:53 PM

So they were a little worse version of the 2006 St. Louis Cardinals then?

Interesting that a division can suck that bad.

Finish off 10 games under .500 and still win the division, I do love to see the AL East suck that bad - woulda been perfect without Red Sox winning it all.

Bluenoser · 07-08-2009, 04:57 PM

Why are they a joke?

If a team is good enough to win its division, in part because the rest of the division is worse, and then play good ball in the play-offs, they deserve to be champions.

The World Championship isn't decided on regular season record, it's decided on what you do in the play-offs.

If you're concerned about having a team win its division with a sub .500 record, then re-allign the leagues back to two divisions. With 7 or 8 teams per division, there's less chance of a sub .500 team winning it.

Athletics17 · 07-08-2009, 06:46 PM

That is why sports are great. On any given day, any team can be beat. The tigers may have been better, but they had a few bad games at the wrong time. In the super bowl a few years back the undefeated patriots should have stomped the giants, but we know what happened there.

bababui · 07-08-2009, 06:58 PM

The playoffs ARE a joke. But its not the fault of the game.

The playoffs are a joke because of the absurd structure of MLB. The league trades integrity for profit generated in the form of bogus divisional races.

A more honest approach would by only conferences and a balanced schedule. That way the 4 playoff teams would be much more likely to be the four best teams in the conference.

Airdrop01 · 07-08-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysok

So they were a little worse version of the 2006 St. Louis Cardinals then?

Interesting that a division can suck that bad.

Finish off 10 games under .500 and still win the division, I do love to see the AL East suck that bad - woulda been perfect without Red Sox winning it all.

Beat me to it. I was just going to use the 06 Cards and 73 Mets (ugggh) as similar examples of "if you're in, you can win."

CBL-Commish · 07-08-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

The playoffs ARE a joke. But its not the fault of the game.

The playoffs are a joke because of the absurd structure of MLB. The league trades integrity for profit generated in the form of bogus divisional races.

A more honest approach would by only conferences and a balanced schedule. That way the 4 playoff teams would be much more likely to be the four best teams in the conference.

Simple solution to his problem: eliminate playoffs. One 30-team league, best record is champion.

Anything else and you have a substantial chance of naming a champion that isn't the best overall team.

jbergey22 · 07-08-2009, 09:27 PM

Its just the nature of baseball. The worse team in the league can beat the best team in the league on any given day. You dont tend to see this in other sports with nearly the frequency.

Plus how many Wild Card teams have won the World Series lately? Florida, St Louis, Detroit. Who am I missing?

jg2977 · 07-08-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

the playoffs are a joke. But its not the fault of the game.

The playoffs are a joke because of the absurd structure of mlb. The league trades integrity for profit generated in the form of bogus divisional races.

A more honest approach would by only conferences and a balanced schedule. That way the 4 playoff teams would be much more likely to be the four best teams in the conference.

Best. Post. Ever.

Raidergoo · 07-08-2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

The playoffs ARE a joke. But its not the fault of the game.

The playoffs are a joke because of the absurd structure of MLB. The league trades integrity for profit generated in the form of bogus divisional races.

A more honest approach would by only conferences and a balanced schedule. That way the 4 playoff teams would be much more likely to be the four best teams in the conference.

I subscribe to this theory.

tysok · 07-08-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Its just the nature of baseball. The worse team in the league can beat the best team in the league on any given day. You dont tend to see this in other sports with nearly the frequency.

Plus how many Wild Card teams have won the World Series lately? Florida, St Louis, Detroit. Who am I missing?

In '95 both lost in division series
In '96 the Orioles lost in the league champion series
In '97 the Marlins won it all
In '98 both lost in the division series
In '99 the Red Sox and Mets lost in the league champion series
In '00 the Mets lost the World Series, the Mariners lost in the league champion series
In '01 both lost in division series
In '02 the Giants and Angels met in the World Series, Angels win
In '03 the Red Sox lost in the league champion series, the Marlins win it all
In '04 the Astros lose in the league champion series, the Red Sox win it all
In '05 the Astros lose the World Series
In '06 the Tigers lose the World Series
In '07 the Rockies lose the World Series
In '08 the Red Sox lose in the league champion series

So there's been 28 wild cards in MLB. Of those, 16 made it to the league championship series, 9 of those go on to the World Series, and 4 have won it all (Angels, Marlins x2, Red Sox)

brewdog · 07-08-2009, 10:18 PM

In this case I think I would have used the custom playoffs option and exclude the sub .500 team I know it sounds painful but it only takes a minute.

Linenoise · 07-09-2009, 12:33 AM

Naw, you are looking at it all wrong. Maybe, those 4 top teams (all finished within 3.5 games) are just really damn good and because of a weighted schedule (assuming you had one) beat the hell outta each other, thereby dragging their records all below .500.

Did I mention how much I hate the lame-ass weighted schedule of MLB? Sucks worse as a Rangers fan. You know how many games run past midnight?

Anyway, I doubt what I proposed is what happened, but it is possible, no?

phillosopherp · 07-09-2009, 12:47 AM

I am normally a baseball purist in most things, but I actually enjoy the current structure and all the fun that it creates in the playoffs. The fact that it turns into the "just get in" factor is something that I think keeps certain divisions active. Can you imagine what the NL West would be doing without it, or how much the entire AL East would be without the fact that they can play for the Wild Card.

It makes it so that teams have more to play for even with the dominance of certain teams.

Le Grande Orange · 07-09-2009, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysok

Interesting that a division can suck that bad.

Finish off 10 games under .500 and still win the division...

That has to be because a balanced schedule was used. It would be extremely unlikely that with a divisionally weighted schedule a club would have that poor a record and yet still win the division. The club would have 72 games (or more) against divisional opponents if a divisionally weighed MLB schedule was used.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

A more honest approach would by only conferences and a balanced schedule. That way the 4 playoff teams would be much more likely to be the four best teams in the conference.

There are reasons as to why the 12-team NL years were a failure, and one of them was that with a large, single-division structure of that sort meant too many also-rans during the season, negatively affecting attendance, and consequently, profits.

Schedule and travel considerations also favour divisional structures.

MiddiePlayer · 07-09-2009, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

The playoffs ARE a joke. But its not the fault of the game.

The playoffs are a joke because of the absurd structure of MLB. The league trades integrity for profit generated in the form of bogus divisional races.

A more honest approach would by only conferences and a balanced schedule. That way the 4 playoff teams would be much more likely to be the four best teams in the conference.

This is why my 32 team fictional league is four 8 team divisions... only the champions of the divisions get into the playoffs. It even makes it a bit harder on me.

bababui · 07-09-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

That has to be because a balanced schedule was used. It would be extremely unlikely that with a divisionally weighted schedule a club would have that poor a record and yet still win the division. The club would have 72 games (or more) against divisional opponents if a divisionally weighed MLB schedule was used.

There are reasons as to why the 12-team NL years were a failure, and one of them was that with a large, single-division structure of that sort meant too many also-rans during the season, negatively affecting attendance, and consequently, profits.

Schedule and travel considerations also favour divisional structures.

So then, what you are saying is.....

Quote:

The league trades integrity for profit generated in the form of bogus divisional races.

tysok · 07-09-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

So then, what you are saying is.....

The league trades integrity for profit generated in the form of bogus divisional races.

What league doesn't?
No one crowns the best team, they crown the most consistent team in a minimal stretch.
The NFL crowns the best consistent team in their 6 week (?) playoff tournament. Not the undefeated team through the other 16 games.
College basketball crowns the best team through their limited playoff set.
College football crowns the better team of the two chosen by some bunch of talking heads.
The NBA crowns who was the best through their limited playoff tournament (even if it does take 5 months to play that tournament).
Baseball has never crowned the best team any more than the other sports.

The World Series was created to bring in revenue, best of 9 game series in 1903, 1919, 1920, and 1921. When the entire post season was begun in order to bring in more money, can anyone be surprised when the only reason for expanding the post season tournament is to bring in more money?

Erik W. · 07-09-2009, 12:25 PM

At the league level, pro sports are a business, and businesses exist to make money. This has always been the case, and will always be the case. I'm not sure where the whole "purity of sport" angle comes from since that has never existed in professional sports.

07-08-2009, 04:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
jg2977 All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,976 Thanks: 4 Thanked 3x in 3 posts	The playoffs are a joke Check out the inaugural season of this new league that I just started. The Boston Red Sox, who finished 76-86, won a weak American League East in a one-game playoff over Baltimore. They beat Detroit in the ALDS 3-2, Texas in the ALCS 4-3, and San Francisco in the World Series 4-1. Attached Images

07-08-2009, 04:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
tysok Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,924 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9x in 5 posts	So they were a little worse version of the 2006 St. Louis Cardinals then? Interesting that a division can suck that bad. Finish off 10 games under .500 and still win the division, I do love to see the AL East suck that bad - woulda been perfect without Red Sox winning it all. __________________ I don't know about you, but as for me, the question has already been answered: Should we be here? Yes! Jack Buck, September 17, 2001 It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. I firmly believe that any man's finest hour... is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi) I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom. (George S. Patton)

07-08-2009, 04:57 PM	#4 (permalink)
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 5,598 Thanks: 56 Thanked 442x in 307 posts	Why are they a joke? If a team is good enough to win its division, in part because the rest of the division is worse, and then play good ball in the play-offs, they deserve to be champions. The World Championship isn't decided on regular season record, it's decided on what you do in the play-offs. If you're concerned about having a team win its division with a sub .500 record, then re-allign the leagues back to two divisions. With 7 or 8 teams per division, there's less chance of a sub .500 team winning it. __________________ It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?

07-09-2009, 12:25 PM	#20 (permalink)
Erik W. Global Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Montréal Posts: 4,400 Thanks: 11 Thanked 69x in 42 posts	At the league level, pro sports are a business, and businesses exist to make money. This has always been the case, and will always be the case. I'm not sure where the whole "purity of sport" angle comes from since that has never existed in professional sports. __________________ Formerly known as Azamien

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

07-08-2009, 06:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
Athletics17 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: jackson Hole, Wy Posts: 1,169 Thanks: 182 Thanked 277x in 222 posts	That is why sports are great. On any given day, any team can be beat. The tigers may have been better, but they had a few bad games at the wrong time. In the super bowl a few years back the undefeated patriots should have stomped the giants, but we know what happened there.

07-08-2009, 09:27 PM	#9 (permalink)
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,078 Thanks: 151 Thanked 137x in 105 posts	Its just the nature of baseball. The worse team in the league can beat the best team in the league on any given day. You dont tend to see this in other sports with nearly the frequency. Plus how many Wild Card teams have won the World Series lately? Florida, St Louis, Detroit. Who am I missing?

07-08-2009, 10:18 PM	#13 (permalink)
brewdog Minors (Double A) Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Harrison, Michigan Posts: 140 Thanks: 8 Thanked 22x in 13 posts	In this case I think I would have used the custom playoffs option and exclude the sub .500 team I know it sounds painful but it only takes a minute.

07-09-2009, 12:33 AM	#14 (permalink)
Linenoise Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 113 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2x in 2 posts	Naw, you are looking at it all wrong. Maybe, those 4 top teams (all finished within 3.5 games) are just really damn good and because of a weighted schedule (assuming you had one) beat the hell outta each other, thereby dragging their records all below .500. Did I mention how much I hate the lame-ass weighted schedule of MLB? Sucks worse as a Rangers fan. You know how many games run past midnight? Anyway, I doubt what I proposed is what happened, but it is possible, no?