Roster sizes through history

[Tom the Fish]

I've searched the internet for this several times through the years but I've never found an answer.

For as long as I've followed MLB baseball, the roster size has been 25 players, with the roster being expanded to 40 players on September 1st. I can't imagine it has always been this way, especially back when less pitchers were needed. Were there roster size rules pre-1900s? If so, what were they? If there weren't rules, when were the introduced? Were they always 25 men? When were expanded rosters allowed? Was it always up to 40? When did the 40 man roster appear with the waiver rules?

Thanks,
Tom

[BMW]

Originally Posted by Tom the Fish

I've searched the internet for this several times through the years but I've never found an answer.

For as long as I've followed MLB baseball, the roster size has been 25 players, with the roster being expanded to 40 players on September 1st. I can't imagine it has always been this way, especially back when less pitchers were needed. Were there roster size rules pre-1900s? If so, what were they? If there weren't rules, when were the introduced? Were they always 25 men? When were expanded rosters allowed? Was it always up to 40? When did the 40 man roster appear with the waiver rules?

Thanks,
Tom

I think Le Grande Orange will be drawn to this thread like a moth to a flame.

I could swear that the Active Roster size was 24 when I started in the mid 80s. And Rule 5 drafts go back to the early 19th century, but I imagine that their purpose has morphed into today's Rule 5 draft over the years.

Sorry, I'm just musing on some random thoughts, and not providing exactly what you want. But that's because LGO is coming.

[RamMan12]

In the early 1900s there were about 25 people total who played for a team in any given year. This includes guys who played one or two games for the team. In my league that started in 1903, I set the active roster to 20 and the expanded roster to 25.

I used baseball-almanac.com to see average roster sizes in various years.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Tom the Fish

For as long as I've followed MLB baseball, the roster size has been 25 players, with the roster being expanded to 40 players on September 1st. I can't imagine it has always been this way, especially back when less pitchers were needed. Were there roster size rules pre-1900s? If so, what were they? If there weren't rules, when were the introduced? Were they always 25 men? When were expanded rosters allowed? Was it always up to 40? When did the 40 man roster appear with the waiver rules?

There's a web site by SABR member Cliff Blau which has answers to many of your questions, but unfortunately, it's not up at the moment.

However, I did archive earlier versions of the relevant pages from that site. These are contained in the zip file attached to this post.

Note that the pages not only describe the roster limits, but also other league operating rules such as options, trade deadlines, the disabled list, etc. It's a good primer for exploring just how these sort of rules have changed over the years in MLB.
.

[Killing Time]

Some guy posted these a while back

Suggested OOTP historical roster limit settings

1901-1909: 16/50 or 17/50
1910: 25/40
1911-1914: 25/35
1915-1916: 23/35
1917-1918: 23/35 or 24/35
1919-1920: 25/35
1921-1931: 25/40
1932-1938: 23/40
1939-1986: 25/40
1987-1990: 24/40 or 25/40
1991-2007: 25/40

[Tom the Fish]

Much appreciated. I'm finding myself wanting to play fictional old-time baseball, and I want to try to get things as right as possible.

Thanks!
Tom

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

There's a web site by SABR member Cliff Blau which has answers to many of your questions, but unfortunately, it's not up at the moment.

However, I did archive earlier versions of the relevant pages from that site. These are contained in the zip file attached to this post.

Note that the pages not only describe the roster limits, but also other league operating rules such as options, trade deadlines, the disabled list, etc. It's a good primer for exploring just how these sort of rules have changed over the years in MLB.
.

I instantly thought of that site when I saw this thread title. What a great site it was. I'm glad you archived it for us!

[ae37jr]

I don't know about the entire time line of roster sizes but in 1986, for one season, the rosters were reduced to 24.

http://news.google.com/newspapers

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by ae37jr

I don't know about the entire time line of roster sizes but in 1986, for one season, the rosters were reduced to 24.

http://news.google.com/newspapers

Oh! The blessed days of owner collusion!

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by ae37jr

I don't know about the entire time line of roster sizes but in 1986, for one season, the rosters were reduced to 24.

It wasn't for just one season, it was up to the 1990 season. The earlier CBAs had been phrased in such a way that it allowed the MLB clubs to field either 24 or 25 players on the Active List, and thanks to collusion, all the major league clubs opted for 24 players.

[teak88]

Originally Posted by Tom the Fish

I've searched the internet for this several times through the years but I've never found an answer.

For as long as I've followed MLB baseball, the roster size has been 25 players, with the roster being expanded to 40 players on September 1st. I can't imagine it has always been this way, especially back when less pitchers were needed. Were there roster size rules pre-1900s? If so, what were they? If there weren't rules, when were the introduced? Were they always 25 men? When were expanded rosters allowed? Was it always up to 40? When did the 40 man roster appear with the waiver rules?

Thanks,
Tom

There was a time in the mid-60's, I think, when the roster was reduced to 27 after Spring Trng for 2-3 wks, then reduced to 25. The idea was to give the teams a bit of extra time in figuring out their rosters, I guess. Lasted only for a yr or two as I recall.

The "down" website referenced above should be able to be more precise, I guess

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by teak88

There was a time in the mid-60's, I think, when the roster was reduced to 27 after Spring Trng for 2-3 wks, then reduced to 25. The idea was to give the teams a bit of extra time in figuring out their rosters, I guess. Lasted only for a yr or two as I recall.

Actually, it was from 1957-67. Clubs could carry 28 players on the active roster for the first 30 days of the season, then had to cut down to 25. Previously, clubs could carry up to all 40 players for the first 30 days.

The change to 28 was greeted favourably by the minor leagues, as it meant less instability and turnover in their rosters during the opening period of their seasons.

In 1968, MLB adopted a 25-man active limit from opening day (excluding the work stoppage affected seasons of 1990 and 1995).

[teak88]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Actually, it was from 1957-67. Clubs could carry 28 players on the active roster for the first 30 days of the season, then had to cut down to 25. Previously, clubs could carry up to all 40 players for the first 30 days.

The change to 28 was greeted favourably by the minor leagues, as it meant less instability and turnover in their rosters during the opening period of their seasons.

In 1968, MLB adopted a 25-man active limit from opening day (excluding the work stoppage affected seasons of 1990 and 1995).

I know you are the expert in this ...and I wouldn't bet the farm on it ...but my memory is that it was a new thing in the mid-60's. As a Dodger fan at the time, I kinda remember reading a story that Phil Ortega and Nick Wilhite would stick because of the "new rules" (these were the first years of my baseball consciousness, when I started paying attention to the whole roster rather than the 2-3 big stars.

Won't fall on my sword over it, but '57-'67 doesn't sound right to me.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by teak88

Won't fall on my sword over it, but '57-'67 doesn't sound right to me.

From the Dec. 19, 1956 issue of The Sporting News:

Majors' Early Trim Hailed as Minors' Gate Aid


Minor league races will get away to their best start in years next season because the majors extended a helping hand to their staggering little bretheren.

The big lift to the minors came at the major leagues' joint meeting concluding the annual winter baseball conclave when the big leagues agreed to cut their rosters to 28 players by the opening day of the championship season...

Most major league clubs, however, have been in the habit of returning from their spring tours with 30 and sometimes as many as 32 players on their squads...

Technically, of course, major league clubs under the old rule could carry their maximum rosters of 40 until the regular 25-player limit went into effect 30 days after the opening of the season. The majors' 25-player limit rule is unaltered.

From the Dec. 16, 1967 issue of The Sporting News:

In other legislation, the majors;

• Cut opening-day rosters from 28 to 25. This frees three players for Triple-A play at the start of the season.

[teak88]

...you're the expert

[risp2out]

Two questions:

(1) The earlier post that suggested roster sizes of 16-17 in the 1900-1909 range. Where does that number come from?

(2) Anyone know about Independent Minor League rosters in the first half of the century?

Thanks in advance.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by risp2out

The earlier post that suggested roster sizes of 16-17 in the 1900-1909 range. Where does that number come from?

The 1901-1909 period didn't have consistent rules all the way through, plus there were differences between the AL and NL. So the numbers in post #5 for 1901-1909 are essentially an average or approximation for the entire period.

Originally Posted by risp2out

Anyone know about Independent Minor League rosters in the first half of the century?

According to the sources I've come across, here's a partial listing (I don't have a complete record of the changes as yet):

1902 — The National Association agreement was adopted by the minor leagues. At that time, the player limit for all classifications was set at 14.

1912 — A new National Agreement proposed the following player limits (it's not clear if these were actually adopted). The first number is the active limit, the number in parentheses is the reserve limit (that is, the total number of player contracts a club was allowed to own).

Class AA: 20 (30)
Class A: 18 (28)
Class B: 16 (26)
Class C: 14 (24)
Class D: 14 (22)

1914 — The National Association proposed a 20% to the salary limits as well as changes to the player limits in November. (Again, I'm not certain if these changes were actually put into effect.)

Class AA: 15 (28)
Class A: 15 (26)
Class B: 14 (24)
Class C: 12 (22)
Class D: 12 (22)

1921 — A new National Agreement laid out the following limits:

Class AA: 25 (35)
Class A: 20 (30)
Class B: 16 (20)
Class C: 14 (18)
Class D: 14 (18)

1932 — In October, the player limits were to be lowered to the following:

Class AA: 17
Class A: 16
Class B: 15
Class C: 15
Class D: 15

1940 and 1943 — The National Association Agreement listed the following player limits by minor league classification level:

Class AA: 25 (37)
Class A1: 18 (32)
Class A: 18 (32)
Class B: 16 (27)
Class C: 15 (22)
Class D: 15 (20)

Note that in Class AA, the American Association used a limit of 20, the International League 21, and the Pacific Coast League 25. In Class A1, one league used 18 and one 17. In Class A, all leagues actually used a limit of 17.

1947 — The National Association Agreement listed the following player limits by minor league classification level:

Class AAA: 25 (38)
Class AA: 25 (37)
Class A: 19 (32)
Class B: 16 (27)
Class C: 15 (22)
Class D: 15 (20)

Note that in Class AAA, the American Association and International League used a limit of 21, and the Pacific Coast League 25. In Class AA, all leagues actually used a limit of 19. In Class A, all leagues used an actual limit of 18.

1948 — The National Association Agreement listed the following player limits by minor league classification level:

Class AAA: 25 (38)
Class AA: 25 (37)
Class A: 19 (32)
Class B: 17 (27)
Class C: 17 (24)
Class D: 17 (21)

Note that in Class AAA, the American Association and International League used a limit of 21, and the Pacific Coast League 25. In Class AA, all leagues actually used a limit of 19. In Class A, all leagues used an actual limit of 18.

1950 — Same limits as 1948, with the following exceptions. In Class AAA the American Association actually used a limit of 23, the International League 21, and the Pacific Coast League 25. In Class AA, one league used a limit of 19 while the other used 20. In Class A, two leagues used a limit of 18 and the other two leagues used 19.

1951 — Same limits as 1948, with the following exceptions. In Class AAA, all three leagues used a limit of 23. In Class AA, both leagues used a limit of 19. In Class A, two leagues used a limit of 18 and the other two leagues used 19.

1952 — The National Association Agreement listed the following player limits by minor league classification level:

Class Open: 25 (38)
Class AAA: 21 (38)
Class AA: 20 (37)
Class A: 18 (32)
Class B: 17 (27)
Class C: 16 (24)
Class D: 16 (21)

Note that in Class Open, the Pacific Coast League used a limit of 23. In Class AA, all leagues used an actual limit of 19. In Class A, three leagues used a limit of 18 while the fourth used a limit of 17.

1955 — Same limits as 1952, with the following exceptions.

In Class Open, the Pacific Coast League used a limit of 21. In Class AA, all leagues used an actual limit of 19.

[risp2out]

Great info. I like playing around with the era(s) when the minors were independent. This is really helpful in thinking through how these leagues should interact. Now, if we could just multi-league financials straightened out AND, more importantly, "purchase contract" functionality, I'd be all set.