New Position Question

vtotter · 07-31-2009, 12:52 PM

I have a stud minor league 1B who I am optimistic I can teach to play a mediocre 3B given his average infield ratings. I believe I could get him to a 4 out of 10 rating by the end of spring training. This would help me out as I have a logjam at 1B/DH and no viable 3B for next year when he would be called up.

My question is: will teaching a new position at AAA (and the struggles that come with it) affect his development as a hitter at all? He has a half season in the minors + spring training to learn, but if learning to play 3B (which he would only likely do for a year) is going to keep him from reaching his potential as a hitter, it probably won't be worth it for me to do it.

Thanks for your thoughts.

AndrewG · 07-31-2009, 01:07 PM

On two occasions I converted players form one position to another. Of course you do this only when you have a good batter and are willing to accept a little less than stellar defence!

In one case I got a decent fielder, in the other case he sucked fielding. Now in BOTH cases thier bat WASNT effected. Although in the case of the latter bad fileder, I traded him when it was clear he couldnt play to the converted position. ON his new team he hit well for the next few seasons.

Now I am not sure if this was just luck.. were only talking two players.. It might be a fluke...

Pirate Fan · 07-31-2009, 01:29 PM

In the online league in which I participate, quite a few players have been taught new postitions. I have not seen any evidence that it has hurt there development as hitters. It has always taken quite a while for the players to bcome adaquate fielders at the new position though. I'd definately recommend that you not wait until spring training to get started. My guess is that even after half a season at the new position in AAA and ST, his fielding at 3rd will be pretty brutal.

Also, teams haven't had real good luck teaching first basemen to play 3B and have had a lot more success converting them to the OF. I suppose if he has half-decent ratings for infield range, error and arm he'll do OK in the long run though.

SandMan · 07-31-2009, 01:49 PM

I had a 1B that I wanted to play 3B as a backup position since I had a few players that played ss and 2B, and needed a backup 3B. I had to scrap the plan because after playing in the minors to learn 3B his fielding average was a brutal .890, .920-.940 would be acceptable - but not .890

Dave1408 · 07-31-2009, 01:54 PM

Does he have high work ethic and intelligence? Because this will also affect how quickly and how well he learns the new position.

vtotter · 07-31-2009, 01:59 PM

Thanks you guys.

For reference, his infield defensive numbers are (out of 10):
Range: 5
Error: 10
Arm: 5
DP: 3
He is a 9 defensively at 1st.

He has a 9 work ethic and a 9 intelligence.

Questdog · 07-31-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtotter

Thanks you guys.

For reference, his infield defensive numbers are (out of 10):
Range: 5
Error: 10
Arm: 5
DP: 3
He is a 9 defensively at 1st.

He has a 9 work ethic and a 9 intelligence.

Not a good enough arm to be a thirdbaseman.....

vtotter · 07-31-2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

Not a good enough arm to be a thirdbaseman.....

Not good enough to learn the position? Or not good enough to be a quality 3rd baseman? I realize he certainly wouldn't be ideal, but like I implied before, I'm in a position where I'm willing to trade a good bit of defense for his bat for 1 year (or at least give it a try). I see in my league there are several players with Arms as low as 4 that have 3B ratings as high as 10. I'm not saying that this player could reach a 10 rating or even close, given his other ratings, just thinking it wouldn't be a stretch that he could reach a 4 and not kick around 100 balls year out there. Below are some filtered ratings from my league that suggest that (or better) is certainly possible. He should potentially be better than the 1st player on the 2nd list, right? Anyway, thanks to everyone for their responses on my original question.

Questdog · 07-31-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

Not a good enough arm to be a thirdbaseman.....

I'm not suggesting that he CAN'T play third or learn the position, I just don't like putting players where their skill set doesn't match up....

vtotter · 07-31-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

I'm not suggesting that he CAN'T play third or learn the position, I just don't like putting players where their skill set doesn't match up....

Thanks Questdog. I normally wouldn't either, but if i can't swing the right trade by my deadline I consider this a special circumstance where it's worth a shot if he's not a total butcher.

satchel · 07-31-2009, 05:08 PM

It will potentially affect his hitting. With his high intelligence and work ethic, his hitting ratings might not end up being diminished, but when you teach a young player a new position, there's a risk that it will hurt his hitting skills.

Pirate Fan · 07-31-2009, 05:14 PM

Let us know how he does if you make the change.

If I was running a bookie joint I'd put the over/under for errors at around 40 if he gets 150+ starts at third next season and his range factor at .5 less than the average for your league at the position. I'd expect him to be an adequate but below average fielder at 3B the year after.

Nutlaw · 07-31-2009, 06:45 PM

Personally, I try to teach my young players as many positions as I can jam into their heads. I would definitely put this guy in at third base. He won't be terrible.

lencombs · 07-31-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtotter

Thanks you guys.

For reference, his infield defensive numbers are (out of 10):
Range: 5
Error: 10
Arm: 5
DP: 3
He is a 9 defensively at 1st.

He has a 9 work ethic and a 9 intelligence.

i agree with questdog, this guy is best suited to play 1b. you said you have a logjam at 1b/dh trade one of them for the best 3b you can get and make room for this guy, or trade this guy for a 3b prospect.

but in the meantime let him learn 3b, that way if he does stay with you he could cover 3b on a short term basis in an injury situation, plus you could change his primary position to 3b when you shop him and might get different bites than you do with him shopped as a 1b, depending on other teams needs.

oman19 · 08-07-2009, 04:17 PM

On Average how long does it take for a player to learn a new positions and does it go by Innings played or Games played? Thanks for the help guys.

Pirate Fan · 08-07-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oman19

On Average how long does it take for a player to learn a new positions and does it go by Innings played or Games played? Thanks for the help guys.

My experience has been that it takes two seasons to teach an infielder or C with fair ratings in OF error and OF range to play a corner OF postition reasonably well. They usually reduce their errors significantly after the first season, but when I have tried to do this their range remains bad until they've had two seasons out there.

I think it takes a lot less time to teach players 1B adquately. I have never been successful in teaching a 1B or OF to play 3B.

satchel · 08-07-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oman19

On Average how long does it take for a player to learn a new positions and does it go by Innings played or Games played? Thanks for the help guys.

It goes by innings played. The time requirement is determined by a mix of variables. For example, the younger the player, the more quickly he'll learn a position. If a player plays at a new position for a full season, and he meets all the requirements, he almost always learns it.

oman19 · 08-08-2009, 03:00 AM

Thanks for the help guys. I just bought this game 2 weeks ago and I'm amazed at the help you find in the forums...I really appreciate it seeing as how in depth this game is and how anal I am about a realistic experience.

Nutlaw · 08-08-2009, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oman19

On Average how long does it take for a player to learn a new positions and does it go by Innings played or Games played? Thanks for the help guys.

Actually, unless it was changed very recently, I'm fairly sure that it goes by games played, unfortunately.

Biggio509 · 08-10-2009, 12:21 PM

Just curious. Being an Astros fan I have seen the team turn minor leagues from fielders to pitchers and pitchers to fielders. A couple of examples Brandon Backe went from SS to MR to SP with mixed results because his bat was weak and Brian Bogusevic went from a SP to an OF. The Cards also did that with Ankiel very successfully. Can a pitcher learn a fielding position or a fielder pitch if you play them as the new position?

07-31-2009, 12:52 PM	#1 (permalink)
vtotter Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 13 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1x in 1 post	New Position Question I have a stud minor league 1B who I am optimistic I can teach to play a mediocre 3B given his average infield ratings. I believe I could get him to a 4 out of 10 rating by the end of spring training. This would help me out as I have a logjam at 1B/DH and no viable 3B for next year when he would be called up. My question is: will teaching a new position at AAA (and the struggles that come with it) affect his development as a hitter at all? He has a half season in the minors + spring training to learn, but if learning to play 3B (which he would only likely do for a year) is going to keep him from reaching his potential as a hitter, it probably won't be worth it for me to do it. Thanks for your thoughts.

07-31-2009, 05:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith AR Posts: 2,680 Thanks: 52 Thanked 48x in 26 posts	It will potentially affect his hitting. With his high intelligence and work ethic, his hitting ratings might not end up being diminished, but when you teach a young player a new position, there's a risk that it will hurt his hitting skills. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59 IOLD

07-31-2009, 06:45 PM	#13 (permalink)
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,529 Thanks: 79 Thanked 102x in 62 posts	Personally, I try to teach my young players as many positions as I can jam into their heads. I would definitely put this guy in at third base. He won't be terrible. __________________ BJHL: GM of the Manhattan Crime Occasional Contributor to The Cardinal Nation

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07-31-2009, 01:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
AndrewG Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Pointe Claire, PQ, CANADA Posts: 313 Thanks: 1 Thanked 25x in 11 posts	On two occasions I converted players form one position to another. Of course you do this only when you have a good batter and are willing to accept a little less than stellar defence! In one case I got a decent fielder, in the other case he sucked fielding. Now in BOTH cases thier bat WASNT effected. Although in the case of the latter bad fileder, I traded him when it was clear he couldnt play to the converted position. ON his new team he hit well for the next few seasons. Now I am not sure if this was just luck.. were only talking two players.. It might be a fluke...

07-31-2009, 01:29 PM	#3 (permalink)
Pirate Fan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 165 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2x in 1 post	In the online league in which I participate, quite a few players have been taught new postitions. I have not seen any evidence that it has hurt there development as hitters. It has always taken quite a while for the players to bcome adaquate fielders at the new position though. I'd definately recommend that you not wait until spring training to get started. My guess is that even after half a season at the new position in AAA and ST, his fielding at 3rd will be pretty brutal. Also, teams haven't had real good luck teaching first basemen to play 3B and have had a lot more success converting them to the OF. I suppose if he has half-decent ratings for infield range, error and arm he'll do OK in the long run though.

07-31-2009, 01:49 PM	#4 (permalink)
SandMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Kenosha, Wisconsin Posts: 2,490 Thanks: 220 Thanked 142x in 110 posts	I had a 1B that I wanted to play 3B as a backup position since I had a few players that played ss and 2B, and needed a backup 3B. I had to scrap the plan because after playing in the minors to learn 3B his fielding average was a brutal .890, .920-.940 would be acceptable - but not .890

07-31-2009, 01:54 PM	#5 (permalink)
Dave1408 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 161 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3x in 3 posts	Does he have high work ethic and intelligence? Because this will also affect how quickly and how well he learns the new position.

07-31-2009, 01:59 PM	#6 (permalink)
vtotter Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 13 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1x in 1 post	Thanks you guys. For reference, his infield defensive numbers are (out of 10): Range: 5 Error: 10 Arm: 5 DP: 3 He is a 9 defensively at 1st. He has a 9 work ethic and a 9 intelligence.

07-31-2009, 05:14 PM	#12 (permalink)
Pirate Fan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 165 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2x in 1 post	Let us know how he does if you make the change. If I was running a bookie joint I'd put the over/under for errors at around 40 if he gets 150+ starts at third next season and his range factor at .5 less than the average for your league at the position. I'd expect him to be an adequate but below average fielder at 3B the year after.

08-07-2009, 04:17 PM	#15 (permalink)
oman19 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Metro Detroit Area Posts: 1,092 Thanks: 387 Thanked 205x in 140 posts	On Average how long does it take for a player to learn a new positions and does it go by Innings played or Games played? Thanks for the help guys.

08-08-2009, 03:00 AM	#18 (permalink)
oman19 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Metro Detroit Area Posts: 1,092 Thanks: 387 Thanked 205x in 140 posts	Thanks for the help guys. I just bought this game 2 weeks ago and I'm amazed at the help you find in the forums...I really appreciate it seeing as how in depth this game is and how anal I am about a realistic experience.

08-10-2009, 12:21 PM	#20 (permalink)
Biggio509 All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,482 Thanks: 32 Thanked 449x in 264 posts	Just curious. Being an Astros fan I have seen the team turn minor leagues from fielders to pitchers and pitchers to fielders. A couple of examples Brandon Backe went from SS to MR to SP with mixed results because his bat was weak and Brian Bogusevic went from a SP to an OF. The Cards also did that with Ankiel very successfully. Can a pitcher learn a fielding position or a fielder pitch if you play them as the new position?