Anyone Ever Added DH to an Existing League?

[OldFatGuy]

I never thought I'd want to think of using such an abomination, but for reasons having nothing to do with baseball and everything to do with computer AI, I'm thinking of switching to it in an existing league that I now have over 15 years into.

Is the offseason the proper time to do it?? Maybe that day right after the playoffs end when it goes through it's routine of firing managers and such stuff so the AI "knows" a DH is needed before free agency??

Just wondering if anyone's tried this, when they did it or think when is the best time to do it, and especially wondering if they thought the AI teams reacted well to it.

Thank you all very much for any feedback. If none, then thanks for reading it.

[norva13x]

I did, I added it in the offseason. What I noticed was that there was a huge spike in offense, the league ERA jumped almost a full run!
It did settle back down after a couple of seasons though.

[Phillies_WFC_2008]

Thanks, I had asked the same thing earlier. Thank you for the input.

[conception]

I don't know if the AI recognizes at all that the DH is an actual position that it should fill through free agency.

[BMW]

Originally Posted by norva13x

I did, I added it in the offseason. What I noticed was that there was a huge spike in offense, the league ERA jumped almost a full run!
It did settle back down after a couple of seasons though.

That's interesting in that the AL did this:

1972: 3.47 Runs per game
1973: 4.28 Runs per game


AL has never been under 4.00 runs per game since 1972. NL has been under six times, although not since 1992. Mind you, that level around and before 1972 of scoring is almost unprecedented in the AL. You have to go back to the teens and naughts to find any stretch of low scoring in the AL like 1965-1972.

[Afino]

Yeah, I remember running some tests with my own fictional league with turning the DH OFF and run production dropped a half run just in that first year.

[Afino]

Originally Posted by conception

I don't know if the AI recognizes at all that the DH is an actual position that it should fill through free agency.

Considering very few players are listed as DH, probably not.

[norva13x]

Originally Posted by Afino

Considering very few players are listed as DH, probably not.

Can they be listed as DH? I haven't seen a player listed as such since v6.5.

[BMW]

Originally Posted by norva13x

Can they be listed as DH? I haven't seen a player listed as such since v6.5.

You can, but I don't know that the AI ever sets this as their primary position.

I noticed that on my site's database (which is separate from OOTP) out of thousands of players I have very, very few listed as DH.

Programatically, if someone plays a position, no matter how infrequently, they tend to get listed at that position when you run scripts to define a primary position. That's probably similar to why the OOTP AI doesn't set DHs either.

[OldFatGuy]

Thanks an awful lot for the input guys.

Just want to be clear though. Are you guys saying that the AI doesn't recognize the DH to be a position worth filling??? For example, if the AI is "weak at 2B" it in theory knows this and reacts correct? But for the DH, it's like it doesn't exist?? So, once the season starts they just start at DH whatever is the best hitter on their bench rather than actually trying to fill that position in the same way they would try to fill a regular position??

Geez, that's disheartening, but not surprising. AI is the weakness that keeps this game from teh perfect, IMO. It's just sometimes very annoying at just how weak it is at times. I had the AI bat the pitcher, in the bottom of the ninth, down two, with a man on base against me the other day. Which is what led to my thinking of this. But if the AI is going to be just as stupid at handling the DH as it is in batting a pitcher in that situation, again it's not balancing the game, which is what I was trying to do.

I thought if I could make the game as simplistic as possible, it would give the AI a better chance.

Anyways, thanks again for responding.

And no, not interested in on-line leagues against humans. For one thing, you don't play the games out, which is what I love. And for another, I would rather be able to play when I want, even if that's 3:30 AM on a weeknight because I can't sleep.

I would pay hundreds of dollars to the developer that develops a baseball sim or even graphic game that has an AI that is at least slightly challenging to an average baseball fan. EDIT: Without resorting to cheating, which is how other game developers "balance" the AI.

[jasonn29tn14]

There are several teams in my (DH) league that have a pair of star quality 1B on their rosters using one as the DH. I don't think that's an accident. I hate the DH IRL. But like you I felt the AI in OOTP was better suited to handle a DH league.

[AndrewG]

To answer the original question:


No, and why the hell would I want to?

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

To answer the original question: No, and why the hell would I want to?

Seconded.

[Left-handed Badger]

I usually play DH both leagues. Sometimes, the AI doesnt fill in a proper DH right away. But, usually by the 2nd year of the switch they usually have the hang of it. (A lot of teams seem to have a 1B prospect wasting away in AAA or something they can use). But, I think it took some teams in the AL in real life a couple of years to fully get the hang of the DH. The one big complaint I have is often times if a team has 2 1B say, they will generally play the guy who would have started at 1B w/o the DH. And quite often they end up playing the better defensive player at DH rather than the field.

[Vinny P.]

I know people hate on the AI using a pitcher to come in to pinch hit, but I know I have done it once or twice myself in the past. The situation has to be very specific though.

Like say you have a hitter in your lineup who just cannot produce no matter what. He has like a .190 BA, and maybe a .243 OBP. Say he's a righty, facing a righty, and you have a guy in scoring position (lets say a speedy runner on third.)

I usually prefer to go by statistics rather than use rating myself. (I DO have rating turned on though.) So I look at my available players, and see a pitcher who is hitting .283 with 44 AB. Not too shabby at all. AND he's a lefty to boot. It is a close game, say 2-1, and I am down, and it's the bottom of the 5th. I also have another excellent hitter in my lineup, but he is very poor LF defensively.

Since it is only the middle of the game, and is a very low-scoring game, I wouln't want to bring this guy in just yet. The guy batting .190 let's say is a 2B. His defensive rating at 2B is a 90/100, which is why I keep him in the starting lineup. I have another utility player who's hitting .235, but his 2B rating is only a 36/100. And he only has 36 ABs, let's say. So I have more information on the pitcher, since he has 8 more ABs, and a higher BA. I need to bring this run in. The utility player is a RHB, but the pitcher is a LHB. I would rather use the pitcher to hit, over the 2B, and do the double switch thing, and switch the pitcher out for the 2B defensively.

I have 1 other reason to use the pitcher over the utility player: I want to "protect" the player, and keep him from lowering his BA so much, where his morale begins to drop. He'll probably see two ABs before the game is over anyway.

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by Nihilianth

I know people hate on the AI using a pitcher to come in to pinch hit,

This brings up another interesting point. A lot of people don't like the idea of a player subbing throughout the game for the pitcher in the batting lineup but are quite happy for them to be pinch-hitted for in a double switch. If an NL pitcher goes for a complete game they may bat 3 or 4 times but most times if they're pulled before the end the relief pitchers will be put in at places in the order to avoid them batting.

Pinch-hitting in the NL for pitchers is like a temporary DH option

[conception]

Originally Posted by Tony M

Pinch-hitting in the NL for pitchers is like a temporary DH option

Yeah, but the fact that managers have to plan out how they are going to use their players and adjust to the game makes in much more endearing than just sticking a DH in there and letting your offense run on autopilot.

I get that you were being cheeky though. For the record, I really enjoy having one subleague with a DH and one without, because I like the AL/NL difference in styles of play. In my league, however, there is a much larger percentage of interleague play.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by conception

I don't know if the AI recognizes at all that the DH is an actual position that it should fill through free agency.

It does

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

It does

I know you've said before it's very difficult to do, but is there any chance of including the real DH rules? (ie. DH can play the field but they lose the DH). To be fair the OOTP rules probably make more sense, but it would be nice to have the real rules as an option.

[Left-handed Badger]

Originally Posted by Nihilianth

I know people hate on the AI using a pitcher to come in to pinch hit, but I know I have done it once or twice myself in the past. The situation has to be very specific though.

Like say you have a hitter in your lineup who just cannot produce no matter what. He has like a .190 BA, and maybe a .243 OBP. Say he's a righty, facing a righty, and you have a guy in scoring position (lets say a speedy runner on third.)

I usually prefer to go by statistics rather than use rating myself. (I DO have rating turned on though.) So I look at my available players, and see a pitcher who is hitting .283 with 44 AB. Not too shabby at all. AND he's a lefty to boot. It is a close game, say 2-1, and I am down, and it's the bottom of the 5th. I also have another excellent hitter in my lineup, but he is very poor LF defensively.

Since it is only the middle of the game, and is a very low-scoring game, I wouln't want to bring this guy in just yet. The guy batting .190 let's say is a 2B. His defensive rating at 2B is a 90/100, which is why I keep him in the starting lineup. I have another utility player who's hitting .235, but his 2B rating is only a 36/100. And he only has 36 ABs, let's say. So I have more information on the pitcher, since he has 8 more ABs, and a higher BA. I need to bring this run in. The utility player is a RHB, but the pitcher is a LHB. I would rather use the pitcher to hit, over the 2B, and do the double switch thing, and switch the pitcher out for the 2B defensively.

I have 1 other reason to use the pitcher over the utility player: I want to "protect" the player, and keep him from lowering his BA so much, where his morale begins to drop. He'll probably see two ABs before the game is over anyway.

Well, the P as a PH was a reason I went to DH both leagues though for the exact opposite reason.

Back in the old days of OOTP. I had this good hitting pitcher, so I decided to try him as a PH on one of his days off. I used him to PH for that day's starting P in the 5th. Well, up comes to bat (despite making the change) that day's starting P. Of, course his .130 hitting self makes the last out in the inning. Next inning, my PH P was on the mound. WTH?

Now, this was way, way back. So this glitch has likely been corrected. But, it kind of turned me off on Ps as hitters in OOTP.