I'm not into soccer but baseball... - Page 2

robc · 02-09-2010, 03:34 PM

I tried the FM demo and didn't know how the heck to even get going. Some forum people gave me some pointers, but I was still lost. Does anyone know some simple online, 'getting started playing Football Manager' resources to make it wasier to get into?

If so, please post the links. I tried the strategy guide (Tactical Theorems), but I need something more basic just just understand the gameplay.

Thanks

Sweed · 02-09-2010, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

HD is here Sweed........at least on FSC on DirecTV.

Holy smoke Batman!

Isn't showing yet on Dish but usually when one gets it the other isn't far behind.
Been checking my onscreen tv guide lately to see if anything new HD was added, nothing so far. By coincidence I just got online to go to the Dish site to see if anything is being announced as "upcoming" when I ran across this thread.

Enjoy the HD "football", hopefully I'm not far behind.

Cooleyvol · 02-09-2010, 04:06 PM

FSC has a new channel coming out March 1 called Fox Soccer Plus. I'm thinking it will replace Setanta as the 'premium pay' football channel as Fox is attempting to buy the North American portion of Setanta's contracts.

Eugene Church · 02-09-2010, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarmenia

That 3D engine is what I had hoped the Sega - SI merger was going to do for OOTP...

I really thought Markus would learn a lot from the FM programmers and have more help in developing OOTPB. I expected him to glean FM technology and know-how and adapt it to OOTPB.

But for whatever reason, it didn't work out.

bababui · 02-09-2010, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robc

I tried the FM demo and didn't know how the heck to even get going. Some forum people gave me some pointers, but I was still lost. Does anyone know some simple online, 'getting started playing Football Manager' resources to make it wasier to get into?

If so, please post the links. I tried the strategy guide (Tactical Theorems), but I need something more basic just just understand the gameplay.

Thanks

Hey Robb

Welcome to Football Manager? 2010 | Online Manual

Football Manager Wiki Homepage - Wiki on Neoseeker

IMO the best way to learn this game is to just dive right in. There really isnt any one way to play; there are various styles not so unlike US football. If you play as one of the richest teams you have a lot of leeway for trial and error without constantly losing and getting discouraged.

PSUColonel · 02-09-2010, 04:42 PM

Yes, I did too. Not just 3d, but I really thought OOTP was going to start taking amazing steps forward...instead, it feels more like the game is moving back to what it was prior to the merger.

PSUColonel · 02-09-2010, 04:44 PM

It has to in order to continue evolving....this is one of my criticisms of OOTP...it tries to please all people, and in doing so, the growth of the product is slow, and there are always a lot of loose ends.

robc · 02-09-2010, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

Hey Robb

Welcome to Football Manager? 2010 | Online Manual

Football Manager Wiki Homepage - Wiki on Neoseeker

IMO the best way to learn this game is to just dive right in. There really isnt any one way to play; there are various styles not so unlike US football. If you play as one of the richest teams you have a lot of leeway for trial and error without constantly losing and getting discouraged.

Thanks. I'll have to give it a try again. I don't think I had a lot of patience when I first tried.

When you were learning, did you watch 100% of each game, or just the highlights?

PSUColonel · 02-09-2010, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robc

Thanks. I'll have to give it a try again. I don't think I had a lot of patience when I first tried.

When you were learning, did you watch 100% of each game, or just the highlights?

I watch the entire match. Touchline shouts and other tactical alterations need to be made during the course of the game.

bababui · 02-09-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robc

Thanks. I'll have to give it a try again. I don't think I had a lot of patience when I first tried.

When you were learning, did you watch 100% of each game, or just the highlights?

I use extended highlites for potentially close games and when I am learning the players on my team. Its also good for seeing how tactics work as you can see twhat the other team is doing and counteract it.

Now I mostly use key moments because I know my team and it helps the game progress faster.

I just dont have the patience to watch full matches.

Cooleyvol · 02-09-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

It has to in order to continue evolving....this is one of my criticisms of OOTP...it tries to please all people, and in doing so, the growth of the product is slow, and there are always a lot of loose ends.

So, which people should it try to please, in your opinion?

PSUColonel · 02-09-2010, 05:24 PM

from a business standpoint, I think it needs to be more like a FM or FOF

I just feel OOTP is better suited as a fictional/modern day career sim. If you want to replay history, there are probably better options. That's why I have always felt OOTP should concentrate on what it's best at.

Tullius · 02-09-2010, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Two strikes against FM in my book: (1) no fictional play; and (2) no historical play.

Fictional play should now be possible but from what i have seen there is no God mode because people like Steinbrenner or Jerry Jones are unknown in the soccer scene. When owners are in the headlines then only because they treat their clubs like a toy.

Historical play is for european totally unknown. I do not think that here somebody misses it. It is something which is has a unique background in baseball culture. Even now i do not understand why historical replay is so popular among the baseball community. It is something like playing the game but you know before the game starts already the result - illogical and boring

.

bababui · 02-09-2010, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tullius

Fictional play should now be possible but from what i have seen there is no God mode because people like Steinbrenner or Jerry Jones are unknown in the soccer scene. When owners are in the headlines then only because they treat their clubs like a toy.

Abramovich at Chelsea, the Man City owners and Portsmouth seem to treat their clubs like toys.

Perhaps the German model is the best of all because of the strict ownership rules.

Cryomaniac · 02-09-2010, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tullius

Historical play is for european totally unknown. I do not think that here somebody misses it. It is something which is has a unique background in baseball culture. Even now i do not understand why historical replay is so popular among the baseball community. It is something like playing the game but you know before the game starts already the result - illogical and boring

.

It might be unknown, but I for one thing would play it. I'd also like to have a match between the '88 Wimbledon team ("The Crazy Gang", that won the FA cup) and the Bremner-led '70's Leeds teams. They'd be physical is all I can say lol.

Antonin · 02-09-2010, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AshBats48

Ok I’ve been looking around on ign and found the new football manager 2010. (I didn't think it was soccer, so don't lecture me! haha) But what I saw rocked my world! In that game you can visually watch your teams play out the soccer games.... I had to download the demo to believe it, but yes its true... THE POINT! We need this in ootp bad!

If you spend a bit of time on the SI forum you will find that despite FM's sophistication, there are many problems with the game. I have been a member there since 2001 [before I joined this forum, in fact], and I own FM05, WSM06, WSM07 and WSM08. I play mostly FM05, and sometimes WSM08.

Over the years, as a growing number of people on SI's forum are saying, FM has just gotten bigger and bigger and more bloated, with more "features" that are peripheral to the actual managing of one's football team, to the point where more and more long-time players are saying "the fun just isn't there anymore."

With each new version, there are a barrage of complaints that basic parts of the game don't work anywhere near the way soccer does in RL, or that they just don't work at all. Attacking midfielders that don't behave like attacking midfielders, goalkeepers that become supermen whenever *your* players are taking shots, defenders that don't defend, etc etc. Common RL footy tactics that won't work in FM, forcing you to create bizarre tactics of your own to fool the game AI. Etc. Basic football tactics do not change radically from year to year in real life, but with each new version of FM, you have to spend hours completely reinventing your tactical arsenal.

FM is fun in small to medium-sized doses, but there is no historical play, and there is no "can't get fired" mode. These things are big turnoffs for me. I was close to buying the latest version, because it has a feature I have been lobbying for for years: an in-game editor so that you can create your own leagues. But all the complaints about the game have kept me away.

I'm in the "it's your game, play it your way" camp, and I like OOTP the way it has been developing. I don't agree that OOTP needs to try to be more like FM. I like text-based management sims to be text-based management sims. 3D graphics don't impress me; they just make the game run more slowly. 3D graphics, IMHO, don't add anything to the gameplay of a text-based sports management sim. They're just eye candy. They certainly don't contribute to what I, personally, want in a sports sim: the chance to manage my favorite team. I want to manage my team, make trades, manage my players on game day, and study statistics. I like to watch team dynasties rise and fall. I like to track player careers.

OOTP baseball is a very good game and should follow its own development path.

Now, if somebody would develop a soccer sim with even the degree of sophistication of OOTP5, with the same amount of customizability, and a "can't get fired" mode, I would be in heaven.

Just my 2 cents.

PSUColonel · 02-09-2010, 07:54 PM

FM 10 is the greatest sports sim ever made. Hands down. I'm not sure why people get so worked up over a lack of historical play??? Even without the graphics, this is still the case.

bababui · 02-09-2010, 07:54 PM

Antonin..as someone who went from FM 2007 to FM 2010, I can say 2010 is far superior. No game is perfect. FM is hugely enjoyable despite its flaws.

DreamTeams · 02-09-2010, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Two strikes against FM in my book: (1) no fictional play; and (2) no historical play.

Like FOF, FM focuses exclusively on duplicating current-day real-world alignments and setups and offers very little in the way of fictional or historical play. I find such limitations very off-putting, regardless of whatever other worthwhile merits the game might have.

Agreed. I've played FM 2010 and loved it. But, it really can't be customized to the extent that OOTP can. Unless I've missed something, which is quite possible. For example, I was able to create a custom fictional league, but was not able to figure out how to create a complete fictional universe. The league I created was fictional, (had to edit a real world league) but it was thrown together with all the real world leagues and teams. There seemed to be no way to make the league stand alone on it's own within the game. That's what I like about OOTP. You can create a complete fictional universe from the ground up if you want and completely remove all real world clubs and leagues and build your own league system from scratch. OOTP is the king of customization.

However, I wish OOTP had the news system that FM has. The interaction is fantastic. Plus, the news just reads more realistically than in OOTP. It's more polished than OOTP in that way. But, it should be with its resources and years of development. Now, that's what I thought the relationship with the FM developers would have brought to OOTP. I still believe a better, more realistic and immersive news system would add so much to OOTP. Right now the news system gets real boring, real quick. It's just not developed enough to hold your attention. You'd really need to play FM to understand what I mean about the news system.

Sweed · 02-09-2010, 09:50 PM

Not really sure how FM would be able to do historical play without a huge roster making effort. Football (take your pick NFL or soccer) is not baseball, there is no way to make a data base of stats that can create players realistically.

Baseball the stats can be used to get a good picture of the player's skills to the point using a data base like Lahman will generate a pretty good roster.

How do you create a good central defender in soccer? Hell, how do you create any soccer player for a historical game? Keep in mind all of the playable league FM rosters are "hand made" ie humans do all of the ratings by watching teams play. The same would have to be done for historical play, that is, by hand relying on the roster maker having knowledge of teams from 10,20,30, 40+ years ago?

Even for NFL historical play how do you create Tom Mack former all-pro guard of the L.A. Rams in the 70's? How do you create Jim Otto, center for Oakland in the 60's?

There's a reason FM and FOF don't have historical rosters included with the game. It's simply not practical.

02-09-2010, 04:06 PM	#23 (permalink)
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Woodland Mills, TN Posts: 5,802 Thanked 458x in 273 posts	FSC has a new channel coming out March 1 called Fox Soccer Plus. I'm thinking it will replace Setanta as the 'premium pay' football channel as Fox is attempting to buy the North American portion of Setanta's contracts. __________________

02-09-2010, 05:24 PM	#32 (permalink)
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,727 Blog Entries: 3 Thanked 179x in 109 posts	from a business standpoint, I think it needs to be more like a FM or FOF I just feel OOTP is better suited as a fictional/modern day career sim. If you want to replay history, there are probably better options. That's why I have always felt OOTP should concentrate on what it's best at. Last edited by PSUColonel; 02-09-2010 at 06:34 PM.

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02-09-2010, 03:34 PM	#21 (permalink)
robc All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,603 Thanked 245x in 150 posts	I tried the FM demo and didn't know how the heck to even get going. Some forum people gave me some pointers, but I was still lost. Does anyone know some simple online, 'getting started playing Football Manager' resources to make it wasier to get into? If so, please post the links. I tried the strategy guide (Tactical Theorems), but I need something more basic just just understand the gameplay. Thanks

02-09-2010, 04:42 PM	#26 (permalink)
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,727 Blog Entries: 3 Thanked 179x in 109 posts	Yes, I did too. Not just 3d, but I really thought OOTP was going to start taking amazing steps forward...instead, it feels more like the game is moving back to what it was prior to the merger.

02-09-2010, 04:44 PM	#27 (permalink)
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,727 Blog Entries: 3 Thanked 179x in 109 posts	It has to in order to continue evolving....this is one of my criticisms of OOTP...it tries to please all people, and in doing so, the growth of the product is slow, and there are always a lot of loose ends.

02-09-2010, 07:54 PM	#37 (permalink)
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,727 Blog Entries: 3 Thanked 179x in 109 posts	FM 10 is the greatest sports sim ever made. Hands down. I'm not sure why people get so worked up over a lack of historical play??? Even without the graphics, this is still the case.

02-09-2010, 09:50 PM	#40 (permalink)
Sweed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 2,398 Thanked 277x in 127 posts	Not really sure how FM would be able to do historical play without a huge roster making effort. Football (take your pick NFL or soccer) is not baseball, there is no way to make a data base of stats that can create players realistically. Baseball the stats can be used to get a good picture of the player's skills to the point using a data base like Lahman will generate a pretty good roster. How do you create a good central defender in soccer? Hell, how do you create any soccer player for a historical game? Keep in mind all of the playable league FM rosters are "hand made" ie humans do all of the ratings by watching teams play. The same would have to be done for historical play, that is, by hand relying on the roster maker having knowledge of teams from 10,20,30, 40+ years ago? Even for NFL historical play how do you create Tom Mack former all-pro guard of the L.A. Rams in the 70's? How do you create Jim Otto, center for Oakland in the 60's? There's a reason FM and FOF don't have historical rosters included with the game. It's simply not practical.