I'm not into soccer but baseball...

[AshBats48]

Ok I’ve been looking around on ign and found the new football manager 2010. (I didn't think it was soccer, so don't lecture me! haha) But what I saw rocked my world! In that game you can visually watch your teams play out the soccer games.... I had to download the demo to believe it, but yes its true... THE POINT! We need this in ootp bad! I will never be able to play a game pitch by pitch until this happens! The graphics aren’t great, in fact they're BAD! But the fact that I could make a team (which I was unable to do, because I don't know the first thing about building a soccer franchise) and watch them play every game.... just think you could visually evaluate talent for your baseball team....watch the minor leaguers play.... wow!

I'm worried about this thread getting pulled... but if it doesn't I’ll post a picture of the game play I’m talking about soon.

[Sweed]

FM is a great game and this years looks to be the best ever with some nice new features. If you can get past the learning curve then playing FM will turn you into a soccer fan. I know many Americans that now pay attention to leagues in England, Italy, and Spain because they started playing FM. Hell, I sit at home on Saturdays watching matches from the Barclays Premier League (Englands football league that is the equivalent to the NFL ) dreaming of the day it goes high definition on Dish Network.

The 3d view was introduced last year and has added a lot to the game. In previous versions the game played out in a 2d top down view with the players represented by "colored balls" (looked like pool balls) on the pitch.

Keep in mind though that FM sells a huge number of games world wide and I believe is the #1 selling pc sports title in Europe. So, they have a large team of programmers that work on the game with a full time 3d guy on the payroll.

OOTP doesn't have the luxury of having teams of programmers. Hard to say if\when any kind of graphic presentation of baseball will come to OOTP. My guess is it would be very rudimentary if it was tried and be similar to the old FM's 2d approach. Still with Markus basically being the lone programmer 2d with proper ball and player movement would be a nice addition to the game.

[conception]

Originally Posted by Sweed

FM is a great game and this years looks to be the best ever with some nice new features. If you can get past the learning curve then playing FM will turn you into a soccer fan. I know many Americans that now pay attention to leagues in England, Italy, and Spain because they started playing FM. Hell, I sit at home on Saturdays watching matches from the Barclays Premier League (Englands football league that is the equivalent to the NFL ) dreaming of the day it goes high definition on Dish Network.

I think, for most of us not familiar with soccer, it seems very difficult to gain an understanding of the game through a text-based sim. I'd probably gain an understanding for the leagues themselves, but as far as on the field strategy, I really feel like I need to see it to believe it. I have played FiFa and that's given me a general understanding of the kind of things that happen in a high level soccer game, so maybe I could learn through FM. And maybe it is just that great of a game that I could really learn the strategy of the game. I don't know much about it but I'm pretty much a text simmer so I'll probably grab it at some point.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by conception

I think, for most of us not familiar with soccer, it seems very difficult to gain an understanding of the game through a text-based sim. I'd probably gain an understanding for the leagues themselves, but as far as on the field strategy, I really feel like I need to see it to believe it. I have played FiFa and that's given me a general understanding of the kind of things that happen in a high level soccer game, so maybe I could learn through FM. And maybe it is just that great of a game that I could really learn the strategy of the game. I don't know much about it but I'm pretty much a text simmer so I'll probably grab it at some point.

I started playing with FM 2006 and the games were played out in the 2d view top down view. I found it quite educational to watch the matches this way and only periodically check out the pbp text (to help me understand some of what I was seeing) at the bottom of the screen. With FM 2010, like FM 2009, you will have the choice of 3d or 2d to watch matches.

To tell the truth learning the rules of soccer was pretty straight forward. The tactics a bit harder but getting the basics down wasn't real hard. That's not saying I've become an expert, by basics I mean very basic. It was hard though translating the tactics into the sliders you had to use to build the tactic. However help is now on the way, FM 2010 has added a tactics wizard that lets you build your tactic using football terms and assign real football roles.

One of the hardest things for me was building a team. There is no draft, teams buy and sell players. Sometimes to make the team better, sometimes to make a profit and use that profit to bring in new lower priced players, and sometimes to only make the greedy owner happy. Also with no draft you have to send out scouts to try to find young prospects for you to sign to your youth team so you can develop them.

IMHO it's worth the effort because the game is that good. It took me about 6 months of playing to really feel comfortable. I would think the new tactics wizard would cut that time at least in half if I were to be a new player starting out with FM 2010.

[yoyoma]

The game is great. Its amazing how fast 5 hours can go when you are playing it. The learning curve is tough it took me about a year until i really got going. I would love to see this type of 3-d engine in OOTP

[Cooleyvol]

FM with online capabilities = xanadu

[PhillieFever]

Not really a "Footie" guy either,but that 3D engine is pretty remarkable.Too bad I don't understand the nuances of the game enough to give the demo a try.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

Not really a "Footie" guy either,but that 3D engine is pretty remarkable.Too bad I don't understand the nuances of the game enough to give the demo a try.

Just give it a try. Its reallynot too hard to master and the depth of the game is a lot of fun.

[jarmenia]

That 3D engine is what I had hoped the Sega - SI merger was going to do for OOTP...

[TSmith1969]

Markus gave an interview a few years back and said that his dream would be to link the OOTP game engine to 2D or 3D graphics like the old Micro League games. The earlier versions of FM and other football sims used simple dots moving around the screen. I think the introduction of ball animation is the first step in this direction for OOTP.

[Le Grande Orange]

Two strikes against FM in my book: (1) no fictional play; and (2) no historical play.

Like FOF, FM focuses exclusively on duplicating current-day real-world alignments and setups and offers very little in the way of fictional or historical play. I find such limitations very off-putting, regardless of whatever other worthwhile merits the game might have.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Two strikes against FM in my book: (1) no fictional play; and (2) no historical play.

Like FOF, FM focuses exclusively on duplicating current-day real-world alignments and setups and offers very little in the way of fictional or historical play. I find such limitations very off-putting, regardless of whatever other worthwhile merits the game might have.

There is an option to use fictional players; and in FM2010 there is the ability to create fictional universes using the editor.

[conception]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Two strikes against FM in my book: (1) no fictional play; and (2) no historical play.

Like FOF, FM focuses exclusively on duplicating current-day real-world alignments and setups and offers very little in the way of fictional or historical play. I find such limitations very off-putting, regardless of whatever other worthwhile merits the game might have.

Interesting. Although I didn't realize it was going to be, customization is definitely my favorite part of OOTP. For me, it's as fun creating a unique league as it is to play (well, it can be tedious, but I enjoy creating). It seems like it would be a heck of a lot of fun to design leagues with the relegation system and other things involved.

[bababui]

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opin...cle160431.html

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opin...cle161797.html

Read these to get the lowdown on custumization.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by bababui

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opin...cle160431.html

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opin...cle161797.html

Read these to get the lowdown on custumization.

Well, that's a decent enough start. Still has a ways to go before it matches what OOTP has on offer though...

[bababui]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Well, that's a decent enough start. Still has a ways to go before it matches what OOTP has on offer though...

Given that soccer is played worldwide, Im not sure how you could accuratly implement historical play. It would be a very large job to get accurate ratings for players that few have seen play, and the DB would be immense.I would personally love an historic option. But its going to take a herculean effort to make it happen.

[conception]

Originally Posted by bababui

Given that soccer is played worldwide, Im not sure how you could accuratly implement historical play. It would be a very large job to get accurate ratings for players that few have seen play, and the DB would be immense.I would personally love an historic option. But its going to take a herculean effort to make it happen.

Sounds like getting graphics in OOTP would actually be more likely than historical play in FM.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by bababui

There is an option to use fictional players; and in FM2010 there is the ability to create fictional universes using the editor.

The fictional players are (Or were as of 08) just fictional names, which makes it pointless in the Premier League because it's still obvious who everyone is.

Originally Posted by bababui

Given that soccer is played worldwide, Im not sure how you could accuratly implement historical play. It would be a very large job to get accurate ratings for players that few have seen play, and the DB would be immense.I would personally love an historic option. But its going to take a herculean effort to make it happen.

It could probably done for England and maybe Italy. Anywhere else is somewhat unlikely.

[senorcoo]

Originally Posted by Sweed

FM is a great game and this years looks to be the best ever with some nice new features. If you can get past the learning curve then playing FM will turn you into a soccer fan. I know many Americans that now pay attention to leagues in England, Italy, and Spain because they started playing FM. Hell, I sit at home on Saturdays watching matches from the Barclays Premier League (Englands football league that is the equivalent to the NFL ) dreaming of the day it goes high definition on Dish Network.

The 3d view was introduced last year and has added a lot to the game. In previous versions the game played out in a 2d top down view with the players represented by "colored balls" (looked like pool balls) on the pitch.

Keep in mind though that FM sells a huge number of games world wide and I believe is the #1 selling pc sports title in Europe. So, they have a large team of programmers that work on the game with a full time 3d guy on the payroll.

OOTP doesn't have the luxury of having teams of programmers. Hard to say if\when any kind of graphic presentation of baseball will come to OOTP. My guess is it would be very rudimentary if it was tried and be similar to the old FM's 2d approach. Still with Markus basically being the lone programmer 2d with proper ball and player movement would be a nice addition to the game.

Football Manager is first class. I play it religiously. It is awesome. When SI and OOTP were merged I thought there was a glimmer of hope that basic graphics would be introduced. I'm not talking Xbox 360 here, people. Even Micro League level would be something.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by Sweed

FM is a great game and this years looks to be the best ever with some nice new features. If you can get past the learning curve then playing FM will turn you into a soccer fan. I know many Americans that now pay attention to leagues in England, Italy, and Spain because they started playing FM. Hell, I sit at home on Saturdays watching matches from the Barclays Premier League (Englands football league that is the equivalent to the NFL ) dreaming of the day it goes high definition on Dish Network.

HD is here Sweed........at least on FSC on DirecTV.