Waivers at the end of Spring Training

[Corsairs]

No, this isn't a "Why does everyone on the 40-man get promoted to Spring Training?" thread; I understand why OOTP does that and it makes perfect sense. With that new behavior, teams must expose players who are out of options to irrevocable waivers at the conclusion of Spring Training before they can be farmed. This is great - exactly as it happens in real life.

Here's my issue: Our league just hit the end of Spring Training, and naturally a number of teams put players they had no room for on irrevocable waivers. One team claimed a whole mess of these players (18, to be exact). An interesting move, but one I didn't expect to pay dividends. After all, that team would in turn have to pass those players through irrevocable waivers before they could be farmed, right?

Apparently that's not right, because the team in question was able to send all 18 players claimed at the end of Spring Training and with no options remaining directly from the DFA list to AAA. What I'm trying to figure out now:

1. Is this expected OOTP behavior, or is it a bug unique to our league?
2. If it's expected OOTP behavior, is it happening because the players are being demoted from the claiming team's DFA list? I note that the manual lists two instances when a player must be placed on waivers:
   • The player is being removed from the secondary roster.
   • The player is being demoted from a parent league team to an affiliated minor league team and is out of minor league option years.
3. Am I correct in saying that this is not how it would work in real life? My understanding is that players without options who are claimed at the end of MLB Spring Training must again be passed through waivers by the claiming team before they can be farmed, even if the team tries to do so before placing the player on the active/secondary roster.

[TribeFanInNC]

I'm pretty sure this is expected OOTP behavior. I do not know how this works IRL. Paging Dr. LGO...

[Alan T]

I believe the way it works in OOTPX is:

If you claim someone off of waivers that has a major league contract, the game forces you to place them on your 40 man roster and then if they are out of option years it will then force you to re-place them on waivers.


If you claim someone off of waivers that has a minor league contract, it does not force you to place them on the 40 man roster and thus does not force you to place them back through waivers again.

[Corsairs]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I believe the way it works in OOTPX is:

If you claim someone off of waivers that has a major league contract, the game forces you to place them on your 40 man roster and then if they are out of option years it will then force you to re-place them on waivers.


If you claim someone off of waivers that has a minor league contract, it does not force you to place them on the 40 man roster and thus does not force you to place them back through waivers again.

Ah, thank you Alan, that's helpful to know. I'm still curious, though; is that how it works in real life? I know we're getting into murky territory here because in real life you have non-roster invitees and such. Still, I seem to recall several cases where a MLB team tried to pass one of their out-of-options minor leaguers through waivers, that minor leaguer was claimed, and then the player was claimed yet again by a second team when the first claiming team turned around and tried to pass him through waivers in order to send him to the minors. That's the scenario I was expecting to play out here.

[ruggie23]

This has been bothering me too.....i think in real life the players get invited to spring training but are not officially on the 25 man roster which means they are still on their respective minor league team roster which means they don't have to clear waivers when spring is over.....i also think that there is a certain date during spring training that players have to be assigned to minor league camp and possibly from that date on the player has to clear waivers but i'm not sure about that.....

[BMW]

Originally Posted by Corsairs

Ah, thank you Alan, that's helpful to know. I'm still curious, though; is that how it works in real life? I know we're getting into murky territory here because in real life you have non-roster invitees and such. Still, I seem to recall several cases where a MLB team tried to pass one of their out-of-options minor leaguers through waivers, that minor leaguer was claimed, and then the player was claimed yet again by a second team when the first claiming team turned around and tried to pass him through waivers in order to send him to the minors. That's the scenario I was expecting to play out here.

The player's contract has no bearing on this on the MLB. If you are on the 40 Man roster and you are claimed, you go on the other club's 40 Man roster. In order to be taken off the 40 Man roster for Team #2, you need to go through waivers again.

Likewise, if a player is out of options and is claimed by another club, it is with the intent that you are placing them on the Active roster. In order to move that player to the minors Team #2 must pass the player through waivers again.

Non Roster Invitees were never on either roster, so none of the above applies.

There is no provision that if you send down a player really early in spring training that you're allowed to bypass waivers or not use up an option year.

There is a rule that lets you put a player in first few weeks of spring training (technically following the filing of Major League Reserve Lists and before the 15th day prior to the start of the next championship season) on the DL for a minor league team, under some strict conditions:

(i) the Player has less than three years of Major League
service;
(ii) the contemplated assignment would not be the Player’s second (or subsequent) career outright assignment since March 19, 1990;
(iii) the Player had no Major League service the prior championship season; and
(iv) the Player was not selected by the assignor Major League Club in the immediately preceding Rule 5 Draft.

The DL rule I mention above doesn't let you bypass Options or Waiver rules though.

[Corsairs]

Originally Posted by BMW

The player's contract has no bearing on this on the MLB. If you are on the 40 Man roster and you are claimed, you go on the other club's 40 Man roster. In order to be taken off the 40 Man roster for Team #2, you need to go through waivers again.

Likewise, if a player is out of options and is claimed by another club, it is with the intent that you are placing them on the Active roster. In order to move that player to the minors Team #2 must pass the player through waivers again.

Non Roster Invitees were never on either roster, so none of the above applies.

There is no provision that if you send down a player really early in spring training that you're allowed to bypass waivers or not use up an option year.

So based on what you're saying here, OOTP X's behavior here should be viewed as not properly mirroring real life, yes? Going by MLB rules, the team that claimed those 18 players at the end of Spring Training should have had to expose them to waivers before being able to farm them, correct? I just want to make sure I'm 100% clear before I BZ this issue.

[BMW]

Originally Posted by Corsairs

So based on what you're saying here, OOTP X's behavior here should be viewed as not properly mirroring real life, yes? Going by MLB rules, the team that claimed those 18 players at the end of Spring Training should have had to expose them to waivers before being able to farm them, correct? I just want to make sure I'm 100% clear before I BZ this issue.

LGO has some good information, so we may want to run it by him. He'll bring extra stuff to the table too, like the fact that technically there is no Active roster during the offseason, etc. but that just comes with the territory... He's very thorough and well versed in the rules.

Still, I'd love to hear the rationale as to why this is an intended feature and not a bug.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Corsairs

So based on what you're saying here, OOTP X's behavior here should be viewed as not properly mirroring real life, yes? Going by MLB rules, the team that claimed those 18 players at the end of Spring Training should have had to expose them to waivers before being able to farm them, correct?

That's my understanding of it. BMW has the description of the rules correct as far as I'm aware.

I think the problem stems from the way OOTP uses the DFA area for things it shouldn't.

In real life, DFA is used for one purpose only: to immediately remove a player from the 40-man roster while giving the club time (ten days) to figure out what they want to do with that removed player. The club must ultimately either outright the player, release him, or trade him to another team.

But OOTP uses DFA as a holding area for acquired players, and I think that causes problems. In this case, for example, I'd speculate what's happening is that since the claimed players are put in the DFA box of the claiming team, and since being in the DFA area means the player is not on the 40-man roster, the claiming team is thus able to send the players to the minors without waivers. It's a loophole created by using DFA for something for which it's not intended.

It seems there needs to be some revisions to how OOTP handles acquired players.

[Corsairs]

LGO, you can always be counted on for a thorough, pertinent and useful response. Alright, this has been logged as BZ3627. Hopefully we can get the behavior straightened out for OOTP 11.

[Bikini Island]

I'm currently in a league still running OOTP X. Does anyone know if this loophole was closed in 11 or 12?

Thanks.

[Corsairs]

Unfortunately, this loophole still remains in OOTP 12. It is logged in the Project Tool and labeled as "To be fixed in OOTP 13", so there is hope that we'll see the loophole closed in the next version.

[Bikini Island]

Thanks for the information.