Historical vs fictional players - Page 2

dickysty · 12-20-2009, 09:22 PM

My compromise/solution? I create fictional leagues with historical players, changing names manually most of the time; the stats come out more realistic relative to the chosen era, and the sheer number of players being renamed often induces a useful "fog of war" that allows the pleasure of discovery to trump expectations.
It does take a lot of time though, and I find set-up/creation/ modification more often the fun part, with relatively less time spent on simming. I seldom make it past 60 years; must be the old ADD acting up.[/QUOTE]

Do you know if name changing actually works if your using recalculate? In other words does the game know the players names or does it us ID numbers when that time of the season rolls around for recalc?

rogmax11 · 12-21-2009, 11:33 AM

Quick reply to robc and dickysty:

The randomize option has two major limitations: it is universal rather than league, team, or draft class specific, and repeat usage scrambles every name all over again, rendering history in your league into gibberish; secondly, if you dont modify your nation--specifically the name DB options--your new names will contain a LOT of very bizarre ethnicities, and the result is of interest only if you are seeking a Tower of Babel league.

The other question is best answered by what I think is factual ( emphasis on think--I have zero competency with coding matters ) : in numerous game universes I didnt notice any disruption by changing player names, with or without recalc. I m pretty certain the names are cosmetic, and the hard data is secreted behind some other convention, possibly player ID #s.

George · 12-21-2009, 11:48 AM

Strictly fictional, both players and teams.

Sabermetric Baseball · 12-21-2009, 12:03 PM

I play Historical-only .... though that can be a bit limited with extremely thin minor leagues and most Amateur Draft players ready for the majors the day they are drafted.

Enabling recalc takes care of the scrub Joe DiMaggio issue.

Killing Time · 12-21-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robc

Sounds like OOTP needs a feature to randomize historical names. That would make it much easier to play the way you mentioned.

It already has one!

TribeFanInNC · 12-21-2009, 01:12 PM

I like both at different times. I like playing guys whose baseball cards I collected as the OP does, but like others find myself occasionally frustrated by OOTP's limitations at recreating the real world.

I very much enjoy the creative outlet that fictional OOTP can bring however. With a fictional world, I can rationalize the behavior better using some 'fictional journalism' because I'm not constrained by 'what should have happened'. I also like to make logos, uniforms, schedules, etc... that make the universe more alive to me. Fictional universes are usually more work, but the added immersion created by the user makes for a better overall experience IMO. I have zero problem getting into my fictional solo adventures.

Eugene Church · 12-21-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

I dont think you should expect the 27 yankees to be the same as the real 27 yankees if you have trades & injurys on. Historical players may have the same
talent in each import but i guess i like seeing how close a historical player succeeded or failed to live up to expectations.
I understand how some feel that its more fun to get to know the fictional players but dont you still expect certain fictional players to perform a certain way? I mean if you look at a fictional player that has the same ratings as Babe Ruth of 1927 did would you not expect that player to hit 60 hrs? Its the same thing only difference is the name is different
I guess i might enjoy fictional play if i were to keep a league going but if i simmed only 100 years im not sure i would enjoy it as much as i do historical play.

I play with ratings off so I don't know how good the players are.

robc · 12-21-2009, 02:21 PM

Pure historical has narrowed the gap a bit over pure fictional, but pure fictional still has quite a bit more players.

I find it interesting to hear how people play the game. I personally don't think I can get into 'imagining' or making up my own stories for a fictional league, but I'm glad others can. I think those that can probably get a lot more enjoyment from games.

When I play, it is pretty much strictly like a strategy game. I like to make the decisions, see how the players are doing, and compare that to their real life performances. I wish the play by play had an option to remove all of the filler so I could just see the results, such as Mattingly singles to left, Henderson advanced to third. I know a lot of people enjoy the verbose play by play, but it isn't for me.

Lately I have given OOTP a break and have been trying the PureSim demo. It isn't quite as feature rich as OOTP, but it has a certain something that has made it more fun. I love how it lets you know when a player made a great defensive play (or missed a play) based on their ratings. Shaun has make a lot of changes over the past month or two. I'm not sure if I will jump ship and go to PureSim soon, but he has improved it enough to at least warrent consideration. I recommend people try the demo and give iot a chance for themselves. I will probably play one more season of OOTP so I can better make the decision as to which to make my main game.

TribeFanInNC · 12-21-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robc

Pure historical has narrowed the gap a bit over pure fictional, but pure fictional still has quite a bit more players.

I'm not surprised by this. Fictional is really the niche that OOTP has a large advantage over the competition. There are several games that recreate historical MLB play, but no baseball game can touch the customization OOTP allows.

robc · 12-21-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TribeFanInNC

I'm not surprised by this. Fictional is really the niche that OOTP has a large advantage over the competition. There are several games that recreate historical MLB play, but no baseball game can touch the customization OOTP allows.

I am torn between the two types of games. I don't have experience with Diamond-Mind or other 'replay' games, but I do want a game that is pretty accurate in recreating the players performance. But I want it in career mode, so I can GM and manage a team for a number of seasons. I also want it to be as close to real MLB in terms of structure and rules (arbitration and such).

So, I don't need a lot of the customization OOTP offers. Are there any 'replay' games that offer continours career-mode play?

TribeFanInNC · 12-21-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robc

I am torn between the two types of games. I don't have experience with Diamond-Mind or other 'replay' games, but I do want a game that is pretty accurate in recreating the players performance. But I want it in career mode, so I can GM and manage a team for a number of seasons. I also want it to be as close to real MLB in terms of structure and rules (arbitration and such).

So, I don't need a lot of the customization OOTP offers. Are there any 'replay' games that offer continours career-mode play?

I don't think so. Diamond Mind and Strat-o-Matic didn't when I played them a few years ago.

tigey75 · 12-21-2009, 04:15 PM

I find the most fun league is a historical one that you begin in 2008 or 2009. That way you recognize the players and if they start under performing by 2011 it doesn't bother you because it hasn't happened in real life yet. Plus you gradually begin to see fictional players come into the league through your minors. It seems like a nice blend to me and it gives you a chance to digest the new guys slowly rather than learning an entirely new team on opening day.

View Poll Results: Do you prefer using historical or fictional players?
Historical	29	29.59%
Fictional	53	54.08%
I love'em both!	16	16.33%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

12-20-2009, 09:22 PM	#21 (permalink)
dickysty Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 250 Blog Entries: 21 Thanks: 43 Thanked 16x in 14 posts	My compromise/solution? I create fictional leagues with historical players, changing names manually most of the time; the stats come out more realistic relative to the chosen era, and the sheer number of players being renamed often induces a useful "fog of war" that allows the pleasure of discovery to trump expectations. It does take a lot of time though, and I find set-up/creation/ modification more often the fun part, with relatively less time spent on simming. I seldom make it past 60 years; must be the old ADD acting up.[/QUOTE] Do you know if name changing actually works if your using recalculate? In other words does the game know the players names or does it us ID numbers when that time of the season rolls around for recalc? __________________ NABA - Baltimore Blue Claw's Dynasty

12-21-2009, 01:12 PM	#26 (permalink)
TribeFanInNC Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,532 Thanks: 94 Thanked 268x in 209 posts	I like both at different times. I like playing guys whose baseball cards I collected as the OP does, but like others find myself occasionally frustrated by OOTP's limitations at recreating the real world. I very much enjoy the creative outlet that fictional OOTP can bring however. With a fictional world, I can rationalize the behavior better using some 'fictional journalism' because I'm not constrained by 'what should have happened'. I also like to make logos, uniforms, schedules, etc... that make the universe more alive to me. Fictional universes are usually more work, but the added immersion created by the user makes for a better overall experience IMO. I have zero problem getting into my fictional solo adventures. __________________ PEBA - Duluth Warriors

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12-21-2009, 11:33 AM	#22 (permalink)
rogmax11 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,274 Thanks: 28 Thanked 24x in 14 posts	Quick reply to robc and dickysty: The randomize option has two major limitations: it is universal rather than league, team, or draft class specific, and repeat usage scrambles every name all over again, rendering history in your league into gibberish; secondly, if you dont modify your nation--specifically the name DB options--your new names will contain a LOT of very bizarre ethnicities, and the result is of interest only if you are seeking a Tower of Babel league. The other question is best answered by what I think is factual ( emphasis on think--I have zero competency with coding matters ) : in numerous game universes I didnt notice any disruption by changing player names, with or without recalc. I m pretty certain the names are cosmetic, and the hard data is secreted behind some other convention, possibly player ID #s.

12-21-2009, 11:48 AM	#23 (permalink)
George Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 27 Thanks: 43 Thanked 6x in 4 posts	Strictly fictional, both players and teams.

12-21-2009, 12:03 PM	#24 (permalink)
Sabermetric Baseball Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 145 Thanks: 4 Thanked 36x in 17 posts	I play Historical-only .... though that can be a bit limited with extremely thin minor leagues and most Amateur Draft players ready for the majors the day they are drafted. Enabling recalc takes care of the scrub Joe DiMaggio issue.

12-21-2009, 02:21 PM	#28 (permalink)
robc All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,660 Thanks: 412 Thanked 251x in 153 posts	Pure historical has narrowed the gap a bit over pure fictional, but pure fictional still has quite a bit more players. I find it interesting to hear how people play the game. I personally don't think I can get into 'imagining' or making up my own stories for a fictional league, but I'm glad others can. I think those that can probably get a lot more enjoyment from games. When I play, it is pretty much strictly like a strategy game. I like to make the decisions, see how the players are doing, and compare that to their real life performances. I wish the play by play had an option to remove all of the filler so I could just see the results, such as Mattingly singles to left, Henderson advanced to third. I know a lot of people enjoy the verbose play by play, but it isn't for me. Lately I have given OOTP a break and have been trying the PureSim demo. It isn't quite as feature rich as OOTP, but it has a certain something that has made it more fun. I love how it lets you know when a player made a great defensive play (or missed a play) based on their ratings. Shaun has make a lot of changes over the past month or two. I'm not sure if I will jump ship and go to PureSim soon, but he has improved it enough to at least warrent consideration. I recommend people try the demo and give iot a chance for themselves. I will probably play one more season of OOTP so I can better make the decision as to which to make my main game.

12-21-2009, 04:15 PM	#32 (permalink)
tigey75 Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 308 Thanks: 66 Thanked 73x in 34 posts	I find the most fun league is a historical one that you begin in 2008 or 2009. That way you recognize the players and if they start under performing by 2011 it doesn't bother you because it hasn't happened in real life yet. Plus you gradually begin to see fictional players come into the league through your minors. It seems like a nice blend to me and it gives you a chance to digest the new guys slowly rather than learning an entirely new team on opening day.