More AI oddness

PSUColonel · 01-19-2010, 03:22 AM

Cryomaniac · 01-19-2010, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Seems quite odd definitely.

Would be interesting to write a news story as a backstory for this though lol.

Athletics17 · 01-19-2010, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Seems quite odd definitely.

Would be interesting to write a news story as a backstory for this though lol.

I actually have done that a few times. I would trade a decent minor league player in a big deal and if they were waived I would pick them back up.

PSUColonel · 01-19-2010, 11:43 AM

Yes, this is not the first time this has happened, where I've been able to do this. The part that scares me though (and this has been the case every time I've been able to do this), is that this is the player that was in many ways the "focus" of the deal, is the one who was/is waived.

Sabermetric Baseball · 01-19-2010, 12:57 PM

A good rule of thumb is to never do trades with the AI in which you're trading more players than you're receiving.

The "quantity for quality" trades always seem to result in the AI sabotaging its own team, and I consider it cheap to begin with.

PSUColonel · 01-19-2010, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabermetric Baseball

A good rule of thumb is to never do trades with the AI in which you're trading more players than you're receiving.

The "quantity for quality" trades always seem to result in the AI sabotaging its own team, and I consider it cheap to begin with.

If anything, I thought the AI got the much better end of this deal.

Sabermetric Baseball · 01-19-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

If anything, I thought the AI got the much better end of this deal.

People always say the AI gets the better end of the 5 for 1's .... yet they find the game much more difficult (and ultimately, enjoyable) when they limit their trades to ones where the AI receives an equal or lesser quantity of players than it is trading away.

If you want a real challenge, don't even do 1 for 1 deals ... make the AI receive fewer players than you are. That makes it even more difficult to stack up elite talent.

PSUColonel · 01-20-2010, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabermetric Baseball

People always say the AI gets the better end of the 5 for 1's .... yet they find the game much more difficult (and ultimately, enjoyable) when they limit their trades to ones where the AI receives an equal or lesser quantity of players than it is trading away.

If you want a real challenge, don't even do 1 for 1 deals ... make the AI receive fewer players than you are. That makes it even more difficult to stack up elite talent.

I realize you can do things like this, but the bugger question to me, is when these little things are pointed out, they never seem to get fixed, even though it's known they are there.

DCG12 · 01-21-2010, 06:55 AM

I'm not positive that we're seeing a problem here, or as big a problem as you think. We just don't have enough information. Your player seems to have good ratings, 70-45-60, but we don't know what his pitch ratings are or how many pitches he throws. We don't know his age or his endurance etc. All these things play a big role in evaluating pitchers in this verson.

Now the AI obviously sees something "wrong" because he was released by Minnesota earlier in the year. Maybe it is the fact that he has been injured at least 3 times last year. (just from what is visible in the scrren you posted). Maybe his ratings are dropping because of injury/age.

The problem with the AI comes because you overloaded it with a 6 for 1 deal. It took the deal because its logic said that the total worth of the players offered exceeded the vaule of its player. At this point it regroups and says I don't have room for player x so I will waive him in order to send him down and you reclaim him.

The question is should the AI waive a player so soon after a trade? I would say maybe if the player wasn't the key part that the AI wanted but maybe took him as a throw-in to get the deal done.

PSUColonel · 01-21-2010, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCG12

I'm not positive that we're seeing a problem here, or as big a problem as you think. We just don't have enough information. Your player seems to have good ratings, 70-45-60, but we don't know what his pitch ratings are or how many pitches he throws. We don't know his age or his endurance etc. All these things play a big role in evaluating pitchers in this verson.

Now the AI obviously sees something "wrong" because he was released by Minnesota earlier in the year. Maybe it is the fact that he has been injured at least 3 times last year. (just from what is visible in the scrren you posted). Maybe his ratings are dropping because of injury/age.

The problem with the AI comes because you overloaded it with a 6 for 1 deal. It took the deal because its logic said that the total worth of the players offered exceeded the vaule of its player. At this point it regroups and says I don't have room for player x so I will waive him in order to send him down and you reclaim him.

The question is should the AI waive a player so soon after a trade? I would say maybe if the player wasn't the key part that the AI wanted but maybe took him as a throw-in to get the deal done.

the news story regarding this trade actually featured this player

DCG12 · 01-21-2010, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

the news story regarding this trade actually featured this player

I'm not sure this is a valid point as I believe the news story pulls the first player offered in a deal from the team initiating the trade for its photo, so if you initiated the trade with this player as your starting point he would get featured. I am going to stick to my original point that without more info it is hard to agree 100% with this being a major problem.

PSUColonel · 01-21-2010, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCG12

I'm not sure this is a valid point as I believe the news story pulls the first player offered in a deal from the team initiating the trade for its photo, so if you initiated the trade with this player as your starting point he would get featured. I am going to stick to my original point that without more info it is hard to agree 100% with this being a major problem.

Here is his BNN evaluation:

Here is my scout's:

History:

DCG12 · 01-21-2010, 08:00 AM

You've got a 22 y.o. pitcher who in your scouts view has maxed out his potential as an average player i.e. 5 ratings on what I assume is a 10 point scale. Even the OSA ratings leave little room for growth. He has only pitched at AA and AAA this year and has a whip of about 1.50 at AAA and a BABIP of over .300 as well. Most likely he is going to get slapped around at the major league level. The only problem I see is why at 22 he is out of options and had to be waived to be demoted. If he had options left then,yes I would agree there would be a problem because the AI should have sent him down to AAA and see if he develops anymore before giving up on him.

PSUColonel · 01-21-2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCG12

You've got a 22 y.o. pitcher who in your scouts view has maxed out his potential as an average player i.e. 5 ratings on what I assume is a 10 point scale. Even the OSA ratings leave little room for growth. He has only pitched at AA and AAA this year and has a whip of about 1.50 at AAA and a BABIP of over .300 as well. Most likely he is going to get slapped around at the major league level. The only problem I see is why at 22 he is out of options and had to be waived to be demoted. If he had options left then,yes I would agree there would be a problem because the AI should have sent him down to AAA and see if he develops anymore before giving up on him.

No it's a 2-8 scale

DCG12 · 01-21-2010, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

No it's a 2-8 scale

Ok that changes things in that he should at some point be a good major league pitcher. It appears he just hasn't grown into his ratings yet based on his minor league numbers. So it comes back to the fact that it appears he had to be waived to send him down. As a human manager I might have tried to keep him in the majors and hope I could finish his development there but the drawback to any AI is it crunches the numbers and makes its moves based on the programmed paramaters. Is there any way to tighten this up to get a better result? I don't know.

One question I do have is if he is currently on your ML roster or did you find a way to send him down? If you waived him to demote him and nobody claimed him I might be concerned, because there must be some team that could use pitching help that he might be able to provide eventually.

PSUColonel · 01-21-2010, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

No it's a 2-8 scale

BTW- He does have option years remaining:

DCG12 · 01-21-2010, 09:52 AM

That's a definate issue then because the Pirates should have put him in their minor league system after the trade. I can't think of a reason to waive him. If the minor league roster was full they should release a lesser player, which I'm sure they have, to make room for this guy.

PSUColonel · 01-21-2010, 10:06 AM

I wish Markus would comment on this. To me, this is a bug.

PSUColonel · 01-21-2010, 06:42 PM

The only thing I can think of is that the Pittsburgh scout didn't think as highly of the player, but then that of course begs the question: why did they want him in the trade in the first place?

jbergey22 · 01-21-2010, 07:00 PM

I hate seeing this stuff. Makes my want to quit.

01-19-2010, 03:22 AM	#1 (permalink)
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,985 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 163 Thanked 234x in 140 posts	More AI oddness

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01-19-2010, 11:43 AM	#4 (permalink)
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,985 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 163 Thanked 234x in 140 posts	Yes, this is not the first time this has happened, where I've been able to do this. The part that scares me though (and this has been the case every time I've been able to do this), is that this is the player that was in many ways the "focus" of the deal, is the one who was/is waived.

01-19-2010, 12:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
Sabermetric Baseball Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 145 Thanks: 4 Thanked 36x in 17 posts	A good rule of thumb is to never do trades with the AI in which you're trading more players than you're receiving. The "quantity for quality" trades always seem to result in the AI sabotaging its own team, and I consider it cheap to begin with.

01-21-2010, 06:55 AM	#9 (permalink)
DCG12 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Traveling through another dimension-not one of only sight and sound,but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundries are those of imagination. Posts: 611 Thanks: 8 Thanked 176x in 88 posts	I'm not positive that we're seeing a problem here, or as big a problem as you think. We just don't have enough information. Your player seems to have good ratings, 70-45-60, but we don't know what his pitch ratings are or how many pitches he throws. We don't know his age or his endurance etc. All these things play a big role in evaluating pitchers in this verson. Now the AI obviously sees something "wrong" because he was released by Minnesota earlier in the year. Maybe it is the fact that he has been injured at least 3 times last year. (just from what is visible in the scrren you posted). Maybe his ratings are dropping because of injury/age. The problem with the AI comes because you overloaded it with a 6 for 1 deal. It took the deal because its logic said that the total worth of the players offered exceeded the vaule of its player. At this point it regroups and says I don't have room for player x so I will waive him in order to send him down and you reclaim him. The question is should the AI waive a player so soon after a trade? I would say maybe if the player wasn't the key part that the AI wanted but maybe took him as a throw-in to get the deal done.

01-21-2010, 08:00 AM	#13 (permalink)
DCG12 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Traveling through another dimension-not one of only sight and sound,but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundries are those of imagination. Posts: 611 Thanks: 8 Thanked 176x in 88 posts	You've got a 22 y.o. pitcher who in your scouts view has maxed out his potential as an average player i.e. 5 ratings on what I assume is a 10 point scale. Even the OSA ratings leave little room for growth. He has only pitched at AA and AAA this year and has a whip of about 1.50 at AAA and a BABIP of over .300 as well. Most likely he is going to get slapped around at the major league level. The only problem I see is why at 22 he is out of options and had to be waived to be demoted. If he had options left then,yes I would agree there would be a problem because the AI should have sent him down to AAA and see if he develops anymore before giving up on him.

01-21-2010, 09:52 AM	#17 (permalink)
DCG12 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Traveling through another dimension-not one of only sight and sound,but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundries are those of imagination. Posts: 611 Thanks: 8 Thanked 176x in 88 posts	That's a definate issue then because the Pirates should have put him in their minor league system after the trade. I can't think of a reason to waive him. If the minor league roster was full they should release a lesser player, which I'm sure they have, to make room for this guy.

01-21-2010, 10:06 AM	#18 (permalink)
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,985 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 163 Thanked 234x in 140 posts	I wish Markus would comment on this. To me, this is a bug.

01-21-2010, 06:42 PM	#19 (permalink)
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,985 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 163 Thanked 234x in 140 posts	The only thing I can think of is that the Pittsburgh scout didn't think as highly of the player, but then that of course begs the question: why did they want him in the trade in the first place?

01-21-2010, 07:00 PM	#20 (permalink)
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,078 Thanks: 151 Thanked 137x in 105 posts	I hate seeing this stuff. Makes my want to quit.