It's time for graphics

[Cornelius McGillicuddy]

I would rather see more time devoted to improving the text in pbp. Don't get me wrong, it's very good now. But the text is what provides a lot of the immersion for me. So that's one aspect where I'd like to see constant improvement.

[Afino]

Originally Posted by rich12545

I would rather see more time devoted to improving the text in pbp. Don't get me wrong, it's very good now. But the text is what provides a lot of the immersion for me. So that's one aspect where I'd like to see constant improvement.

The OOTPX version of PBP is leaps and bounds better than 9. Rest assured, it's always an important upgrade with every version.

[Cornelius McGillicuddy]

Originally Posted by Afino

The OOTPX version of PBP is leaps and bounds better than 9. Rest assured, it's always an important upgrade with every version.

Yeah I finally did with the holiday special and really like it. I put it on slow. Makes the game kind of tense.

[CBL-Commish]

I don't really care about animation, but I think a stadium generator that was an updated version of what EWB had would be a feature on par with Facegen. Enter fence heights and distances, stand configurations, foul ground points, turf/grass/cutouts options, colors, altitude, weather... then have the thing spit out a realistic looking graphic with auto-placement of the fielders, batters, runners. That would keep me happy for a long time.

[OakDragon]

Originally Posted by EMSoccerCoach

It's funny...I would rather have audio announcing like Broadcast Blast did than graphics for this game. I'm in the minority probably, and that's fine.

One little thing I really miss from MicroLeague BB II on my old Mac Plus was that it had editable speech synthesis support that would announce who was batting or coming in to pitch like, "Now batting, Wade Boggs" for example. Now, I know that that game was based on known player names, but the speech was editable based on a phonetic transcription system. (I made up the speech scripts for all the teams/players I created, including adding jersey numbers into the announcement.) If the speech synth support in current PC or Mac OS's is anything like it was back then (e.g., Macintalk on the Mac... don't know about the PC) then it might be worth the effort (in my view, anyway) to add something like that to OOTP.

[TNCubsFan]

Until the AI and known bugs are fixed, then a move to graphics would leave me behind.

I bought the game this year to support Marcus. This coming year I dont see it happening without a serious effort put into fixing old things. Instead of new bells and whistles that dont add anything solid to the game the legacy issues need to be adressed.

[Malleus Dei]

Fixing legacy issues isn't fun, isn't sexy, and the end result doesn't read well on the web ad or box art ("All legacy issues finally fixed!!!" isn't quite up there with "Mass select, clone, copy, move, or delete players!" or "Design your own ballparks!").

But what it is for OOTP, sadly, is a necessity.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

I don't really care about animation, but I think a stadium generator that was an updated version of what EWB had would be a feature on par with Facegen. Enter fence heights and distances, stand configurations, foul ground points, turf/grass/cutouts options, colors, altitude, weather... then have the thing spit out a realistic looking graphic with auto-placement of the fielders, batters, runners. That would keep me happy for a long time.

That would please a lot of us. Do not hold your breath.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Getting back on topic... real graphics, be it 2D or 3D, would have to be done 100% right or it would be torn apart by you guys. And in my opinion, even current games on the PS3 do not get it right (I am talking about player movement AI etc. not the graphics quality). And if these guys with a huge budget cannot get it right, how could we?

Sorry, Markus, I have to disagree. The audience for OOTP is vastly different than the audience for arcade baseball games. Most of the people playing baseball sims are more focused on realism, statistics, and the text game engine than they are on graphics. They are more forgiving when it comes to graphics. Many of us are older gamers who have been playing baseball sims since the personal computer first emerged.

Traditionally here in the U.S., baseball sims have had relatively primitive graphics. The key is to show the position of the players on the field, the flight of the ball, and the dimensions of the park. You don't need to get into high resolution 3D modeling with shadows, reflections, and all that other nonsense. If people want that, there are plenty of alternatives.

OOTP customers are not going to compare your game with the latest title from EA Sports. So there is no need to aim for such a high standard. Look at Football Manager as a perfect example. The original 2D match graphics were a huge improvement, and many people were happy with that.

The current 3D match engine, while primitive compared to FIFA Football or similar arcade games, has been a welcome addition for most customers. The majority of FM gamers now play the game with 3D match graphics turned on, and while plenty of people have their complaints and suggestions, you will find almost no one playing in text mode anymore.

[Cornelius McGillicuddy]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

Sorry, Markus, I have to disagree. The audience for OOTP is vastly different than the audience for arcade baseball games. Most of the people playing baseball sims are more focused on realism, statistics, and the text game engine than they are on graphics. They are more forgiving when it comes to graphics. Many of us are older gamers who have been playing baseball sims since the personal computer first emerged.

Traditionally here in the U.S., baseball sims have had relatively primitive graphics. The key is to show the position of the players on the field, the flight of the ball, and the dimensions of the park. You don't need to get into high resolution 3D modeling with shadows, reflections, and all that other nonsense. If people want that, there are plenty of alternatives.

OOTP customers are not going to compare your game with the latest title from EA Sports. So there is no need to aim for such a high standard. Look at Football Manager as a perfect example. The original 2D match graphics were a huge improvement, and many people were happy with that.

The current 3D match engine, while primitive compared to FIFA Football or similar arcade games, has been a welcome addition for most customers. The majority of FM gamers now play the game with 3D match graphics turned on, and while plenty of people have their complaints and suggestions, you will find almost no one playing in text mode anymore.

Again, Baseball Mogul has that. And it's fine. But then you don't have the good text that is in OOTP. The reason is that the eye can only follow one or the other. It's not capable of following both at the same time.

So do you want to give up text for simple graphics?

I like the text. I can see the graphics in my mind.

[Portland Rain]

Charlie Hough has it perfect, my thoughts exactly. We don't need a perfect graphic game, just a little more than the ball animation.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by rich12545

So do you want to give up text for simple graphics?

I like the text. I can see the graphics in my mind.

There is a long history of baseball sims that incorporate text and graphics quite successfully. This is hardly a new or challenging concept to implement. If they could do it with 64K memory in 1984, they can do it now.

Personally I have no issue with multi-tasking and following both graphics and text simultaneously. They're not mutually exclusive. The graphics with on field audio, player movement, and ball flight help create anticipation and suspense. But then there is the play-by-play text to describe more specifics, which can work in tandem with the graphics to further heighten the experience.

[mm7607]

I don't see what all the what all the crying about bugs is for. I don't use finances, personality or morale. Also I backup my .lg folder after each season so any problems will only cost me 1 season at the most. As for the bugs 99% of the time it was usually something I did wrong. IMO there are only 2 things that would make this game perfect.

[Cornelius McGillicuddy]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

There is a long history of baseball sims that incorporate text and graphics quite successfully. This is hardly a new or challenging concept to implement. If they could do it with 64K memory in 1984, they can do it now.

Personally I have no issue with multi-tasking and following both graphics and text simultaneously. They're not mutually exclusive. The graphics with on field audio, player movement, and ball flight help create anticipation and suspense. But then there is the play-by-play text to describe more specifics, which can work in tandem with the graphics to further heighten the experience.

Maybe I'm just getting old. I tried it with Baseball Mogul. Nice graphics and minimal text. Couldn't do it very well. Gave me stress. I much prefer the text by itself and, in my mind, I picture that fly ball to right better than any graphics engine could show. I put the text on slow and each play is like a mini-game.

[BaseballMan]

I dont really care to see the same ball animation over and over. Id rather have improved pbp, news storys, automatic transactions for historical leagues, and like i said id rather hear the game more than see the same graphics. Though i wouldnt mind seeing some graphic animations during award ceremonys, drafts, news storys like the hall of fame. Maybe a background, some animation or even a small movie. But i dont think it would be wise to aim for graphics like EA or the other big software publishers. To me that would make OOTP like a great novel only to be ruined by a lousy movie version. Unless its one of those rare occaions in which the movie honors the book. Still it may be just me but some of the great things about text games is that it leaves a lot to the imagination.
Its up to you to see how a player caught the ball from a description rather than have the graphics do it for you.
But i am not against graphics but at this point i would hope it would be something to work on when Markus has some extra time.

[yajeflow]

it's always funny when i see something about stuff i don't use or even know about? OOTP has SOUND?! really?? i have not - and never will - use play by play. i have no clue what it even looks like. i don't care. i use OOTP for simming my league, period. we LOVE the graphics on the uniforms/caps/logos for the web site. excellent.

the marketing guy in me would like to see a breakdown of how people use OOTP:

XX% use it for online leagues
XX% use real MLB rosters
XX% play historical seasons in PBP
XX% use contracts
XX% use hidden attributes

that sorta thing. i'd wager that we ALL would be very surprised.

heck, i'll go first:
online career league...fictitious players only...all era stats were duped to create a uniform 'pure' experience from season to season...all talent was given equal baseball skill around the world, so we get shortstops from zanzibar, etc. (who could forget the big stick from limerick, ireland - ossie leaper??)...contracts are used and set to about 5% of current MLB...three levels of minor leagues, plus HS and COL feeder leagues...15 round drafts...50% gate splits...no salary cap...hidden attributes...no playoffs...5-man rotations...

[pstrickert]

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-baseball.html

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by yajeflow

the marketing guy in me would like to see a breakdown of how people use OOTP:

XX% use it for online leagues
XX% use real MLB rosters
XX% play historical seasons in PBP
XX% use contracts
XX% use hidden attributes

that sorta thing. i'd wager that we ALL would be very surprised.

I think there was a poll about some of that at some point.