My top 5 issues with 1-Pitch Managing

[ike121212]

In hope that these are considered for XI...


1. Defense- When you set Pitching Strategy to yourself and Defensive Strategy to the AI, you end up having to control both....very annoying. It feels like a bug and it didn't work like this in older versions. I just want control over the big stuff, like intentional walks!

2. RP Fatigue- It's too hard not to abuse. I can throw RP's every other day for 2 innings and accumulate no fatigue. If I throw someone for 1 batter on 2 consecutive days, they accumulate significant fatigue. I gain a massive advantage over the AI, that's tough to fix with any house rule. I really wish there was some type of reliever durability.

3. Stolen Base Wall- When a high Steal, Low/Medium Speed player hits his artificial SB limit, he just start getting thrown out almost non-stop. This model might work well for simulations, but it's bad for managing. I'd prefer SB's had a fatigue hit, for this type of player.

4. SB- I get forced into pitch by pitch play, until the runner goes. Let me green light him and stay in 1 pitch mode!

5. Accidental Subs- We've all done it. Let me cancel moves, if I catch them before I switch game to the game screen.

[robc]

Originally Posted by ike121212

In hope that these are considered for XI...
4. SB- I get forced into pitch by pitch play, until the runner goes. Let me green light him and stay in 1 pitch mode!

Yes!

[Afino]

I don't get #3 - there's a "limit"? Please explain.

I know that high Steal, low Speed players won't steal as much as high Steal, high Speed players, but I didn't know there's a "wall" they hit....

[Afino]

Oh, and if you want to fix #2, carry fewer RP on your roster.

[ike121212]

Originally Posted by Afino

I don't get #3 - there's a "limit"? Please explain.

I know that high Steal, low Speed players won't steal as much as high Steal, high Speed players, but I didn't know there's a "wall" they hit....

If you simulate, high ST/high Speed players get more attempts than high ST/low Speed players. If you manage, their success rate takes a hit when the game determines they've been stealing too much. I can't give any details, since it requires managing and putting together enough data would take too much time. If you manage with one of these guys on your team, you quickly become wary of this mysterious threshold.

[ike121212]

Originally Posted by Afino

Oh, and if you want to fix #2, carry fewer RP on your roster.

It seems like the right time of year to ask for a real fix. Maybe the disadvantage of carrying fewer pitchers balances with the advantage of abusing the fatigue system, but it's far from ideal.

This is just one of many situations where league strategies force the AI to use players less than optimally to get good simulation results. I'd love to see some of these get fixed.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by ike121212

If you simulate, high ST/high Speed players get more attempts than high ST/low Speed players. If you manage, their success rate takes a hit when the game determines they've been stealing too much. I can't give any details, since it requires managing and putting together enough data would take too much time. If you manage with one of these guys on your team, you quickly become wary of this mysterious threshold.

I've never seen this. I'd have to see more data to be convinced.

[ike121212]

Originally Posted by RchW

I've never seen this. I'd have to see more data to be convinced.

I don't blame you. I'm certainly not going to put together enough data to convince everyone, and I can't be certain of exactly how it's coded either. I have seen players steal in the neighborhood of 45 out of 50 proceed to get thrown out on 20 consecutive attempts. I've seen enough evidence to believe that there is something artificially impacting their success.

[PhillieFever]

Originally Posted by ike121212

In hope that these are considered for XI...


1. Defense- When you set Pitching Strategy to yourself and Defensive Strategy to the AI, you end up having to control both....very annoying. It feels like a bug and it didn't work like this in older versions. I just want control over the big stuff, like intentional walks!

2. RP Fatigue- It's too hard not to abuse. I can throw RP's every other day for 2 innings and accumulate no fatigue. If I throw someone for 1 batter on 2 consecutive days, they accumulate significant fatigue. I gain a massive advantage over the AI, that's tough to fix with any house rule. I really wish there was some type of reliever durability.

3. Stolen Base Wall- When a high Steal, Low/Medium Speed player hits his artificial SB limit, he just start getting thrown out almost non-stop. This model might work well for simulations, but it's bad for managing. I'd prefer SB's had a fatigue hit, for this type of player.

4. SB- I get forced into pitch by pitch play, until the runner goes. Let me green light him and stay in 1 pitch mode!

5. Accidental Subs- We've all done it. Let me cancel moves, if I catch them before I switch game to the game screen.

Here's a couple of things, first off for number two, there is a modifier for RP stamina, if you feel as though they have to much stamina, lower the modifier to .900 from 1.0 and see if that helps. Next there is without a doubt no SB wall, what happens is, when players/teams attempt a lot of steals the CPU AI begins to pay much more attention to them, causing the frequent CS's. As for the one pitch SB thing, I look at it as the CPU's way of keeping the human from attempting an unrealistic amount of steals.When I play I'll attempt to steal once. If he doesn't go I don't attempt it again until the next batter(if at all) Hopefully that helps.

[ike121212]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

Here's a couple of things, first off for number two, there is a modifier for RP stamina, if you feel as though they have to much stamina, lower the modifier to .900 from 1.0 and see if that helps.

It helps a little bit, but it's less than ideal. With the new pitching system, you end up with a lot of high ST relievers now.

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

Next there is without a doubt no SB wall, what happens is, when players/teams attempt a lot of steals the CPU AI begins to pay much more attention to them, causing the frequent CS's.

I think you just explained your rationale for the wall, or maybe you just don't like calling it a wall. It's unexplained nature bothers me.

[RchW]

OK, I have SB and CS for the regular season. All games simulated.

Then I have SB and CS for 13 games in the playoffs. All games managed.

I stipulate that this is a small sample but I see the percentage almost identical. That is 83.7% vs 81.3%.

[PhillieFever]

Originally Posted by ike121212

It helps a little bit, but it's less than ideal. With the new pitching system, you end up with a lot of high ST relievers now.



I think you just explained your rationale for the wall, or maybe you just don't like calling it a wall. It's unexplained nature bothers me.

I don't call it anything, because I've never seen it. I've played over 1000 one pitch games over 9 different seasons including one in which my player led the league in SB's with 85 and I haven't come across your problem. But, people play the game in different ways, so what happens to you doesn't necessarily happen to me that's why documented statistics are crucial when making these types of claims.

[ike121212]

Originally Posted by RchW

OK, I have SB and CS for the regular season. All games simulated.

Then I have SB and CS for 13 games in the playoffs. All games managed.

I stipulate that this is a small sample but I see the percentage almost identical. That is 83.7% vs 81.3%.

So small that it's not applicable. I can't see their ratings, but if one of them is high steal, low speed, run them twice as much next season and watch their success rate.

I understand that the game needs to handle low attempt, high success runners. My complaint is that at some point, unknown to the manager, his success rate drops. It causes me to try to maximize my stolen base attempts with those runners by running in key situations, and not waste attempts in ordinary running situations. Anything that makes me min/max the game, as opposed to playing baseball, bothers me.

[ike121212]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

I don't call it anything, because I've never seen it. I've played over 1000 one pitch games over 9 different seasons including one in which my player led the league in SB's with 85 and I haven't come across your problem. But, people play the game in different ways, so what happens to you doesn't necessarily happen to me that's why documented statistics are crucial when making these types of claims.

I'm not attempting to statistically prove it to the community. It looks like Markus is reading the forums lately and taking suggestions. He knows the real answer. If I'm lucky, he'll either share it or consider if it's working well.

[OldFatGuy]

Originally Posted by ike121212

I'm not attempting to statistically prove it to the community. It looks like Markus is reading the forums lately and taking suggestions. He knows the real answer. If I'm lucky, he'll either share it or consider if it's working well.

And you shouldn't have to. A LOT of us play out all our games, I've played over 20 seasons now, and I'd bet that puts me up there in terms of total games played out. But, even if I kept comprehensive statistics in all of those games I've played out, it's still not really enough data to be conclusive. The bottom line is, there is no way we can collect enough data ourselves to prove anything.

Therefore, those of us who play out all of our games should be able to bring up legitimate questions without having to "back it up". Because, it's just a question. Yours is legitimate. I'm convinced there are a couple of things that are different when playing versus simming, but I can't prove it either (but I'm NOT talking about this issue. TBH, I haven't noticed it one way or another, I'm just not a big running manager).

The best way I think to go about it is to just ask Marcus directly. And if he answers, you can believe him or not believe him. And if he chooses to NOT answer, then you can feel free to draw conclusions from that as well, IMO.

So, in this case the most straightforward way I can think of is to ask this:

MARCUS:

Is there something in the code that changes a basestealers success rate based on number of attempts in the season?

I.E., are there some players, WITH ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, whose chance at success are say 80% on attempts 1-10, 70% on attempts 11-20, 50% on attempts 21-30, and 30% on attempts 31 forward???

Frankly ike121212, I really can't think of another way to code it though if you do want to simulate high success, low attempt players, of which there have been many.

[OldFatGuy]

Dola,

And just wanted to say, I agree wholeheartedly with your point about relievers. There is something very wrong with the way relievers recover, and it doesn't matter what setting you have it on. I've seen major league relievers used 4 days straight often enough in real life to know it happens, but I shudder to think what my guy would look like after the 3rd straight, because after the second straight (even if he only threw like 10 pitches total in the two outings), he's pretty much toast.

[ike121212]

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

Dola,

And just wanted to say, I agree wholeheartedly with your point about relievers. There is something very wrong with the way relievers recover, and it doesn't matter what setting you have it on. I've seen major league relievers used 4 days straight often enough in real life to know it happens, but I shudder to think what my guy would look like after the 3rd straight, because after the second straight (even if he only threw like 10 pitches total in the two outings), he's pretty much toast.

Thanks for changing topics. If I could only pick one thing to improve with manager mode, this would be it.

I cringe to think of how many games I've managed over 10+ releases...conservatively, 20 full seasons. I've played out more than 4 in X alone.

[RonCo]

I don't know that it's true, but I think it's logical that a High Steal/Low Speed (HS/LS means high success rate but low attempts) player who you over-run will start getting caught a lot. Most of these guys succeed _at least_ partially because of the surprise factor. If they run every time they're on base, they're going to get caught a ton. It seems to me that the challenge as a pitch-by-pitch manager would be to pick the right spots for your guy so as to be useful as well as to keep his percentage up.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by ike121212

If you simulate, high ST/high Speed players get more attempts than high ST/low Speed players. If you manage, their success rate takes a hit when the game determines they've been stealing too much. I can't give any details, since it requires managing and putting together enough data would take too much time. If you manage with one of these guys on your team, you quickly become wary of this mysterious threshold.

I've never seen this either. And I am always looking to steal bases, so I attempt to steal a lot. However, I always do it by using run and hit.

I tend to do it only when I've got a decent advantage against a pitcher who is poor at holding or a catcher with a weak arm. But I get a LOT of stolen bases far beyond real life totals, so I would think that I would have run into the problem you've described.

Currently I'm managing a team that doesn't have any players with really good speed, but a number of players have good steal ratings. I have the #1, #2, and #7 stolen base leaders in MLB, although I'm only about 21 games into the current season. But those three players have all stolen significantly more than their real life totals ... already!

[ike121212]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

I've never seen this either. And I am always looking to steal bases, so I attempt to steal a lot. However, I always do it by using run and hit.

I tend to do it only when I've got a decent advantage against a pitcher who is poor at holding or a catcher with a weak arm. But I get a LOT of stolen bases far beyond real life totals, so I would think that I would have run into the problem you've described.

Currently I'm managing a team that doesn't have any players with really good speed, but a number of players have good steal ratings. I have the #1, #2, and #7 stolen base leaders in MLB, although I'm only about 21 games into the current season. But those three players have all stolen significantly more than their real life totals ... already!

I'm curious to see what you observe with them over the next few months. I've done similar things many times, and if I keep running them, they start to get thrown out significantly more often.