Men named "Kid" and "Doc"

[84Hammy]

I don't usually do historical solo leagues, but I figured I'd give it a try considering how easy it in now with OOTP8. I have a little question though: Why were so many ball players early in the 1900's named "Kid" and "Doc"? I played hockey with a guy we called Doc. It turns out, he was a doctor! I wonder about Kid Elberfeld and Docs Casey, Gessler, and Nance. Don't even get me started on the guys on my roster named Pop and Ducky.

[canadiancreed]

Kid = youthful look to them
Doc......no idea......glasses?

[ctorg]

There are also a few Rubes in there, but I think we know the root of that. It seems that nicknames were considered much more like real names back then.

[Renner]

Many of the "Docs" were either doctors or guys who studied medicine. "Kids" were small scrappy guys. I think the connection came from early 20th century boxing. I always thought Wally Backman should have been called "Kid"...or maybe "Kid" Eckstein ??

[84Hammy]

Okay, I just noticed that Doc Nance's nickname is, you guessed it, "Kid"!

[eriqjaffe]

Doc White was, in fact, a doctor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doc_White

Turns out he was also a composer, which I didn't know until I hit that link.

[84Hammy]

So it was the fifth round on the 1905 draft, and who do I see is one of the few remaining players available? Moonlight Graham. This is relevant to this thread because, from what the Wiki tells me, after his retirement from the minors in 1907, Moonlight completed a medical degree: ""Doc" Graham, as he became known after his career as a ballplayer, served the people of Chisholm (Minnesota) for fifty years." I'm going to see if I can get him an at bat! Maybe he can hit between Doc Casey and Doc Nance.

[The Wolf]

http://www.sabr.org/sabr.cfm?a=cms,c,345,34,0

"Rick Solensky used the Lahman baseball database to calculate the frequency of nicknames by position. Here's what he found:

Pitcher
130 Lefty
19 Red
16 Doc
13 Buck, Dutch
12 'Big Ed'

Catcher
10 Red
5 Doc, Dutch
3 Bull, Moose, Nig, Pudge

First Base
9 Dutch
8 Lefty
6 'Big Bill'
5 Doc, Red, Moose

Second Base
6 Doc, Dutch, Red, Whitey
5 Rabbit
4 Deacon, Kid, Pepper, 'Wild Bill'

Third Base
11 Red
8 Dutch
5 Kid
4 Blackie, Deacon, Mike, Whitey

Short Stop
9 Red
8 Dutch
6 Whitey
5 Doc, Rabbit

Outfield
16 Red
15 Lefty
11 Doc, Dutch
7 Rabbit

A player is counted at each position played."

[Jestre]

Chief and Heinie were quite popular in the early 1900's.... Baseball Ref has 23 Heinie's and 25 chiefs, guess they aren't pc enough to be included in the previous list....

[Markmeister]

Originally Posted by Jestre

Chief and Heinie were quite popular in the early 1900's.... Baseball Ref has 23 Heinie's and 25 chiefs, guess they aren't pc enough to be included in the previous list....

My guess its because of how the list was compiled. Only one player in Lahman has the nickname Heinie - all the rest are listed in the first name column.

Chief is split - 11 in first names and 10 in nicknames

[The Wolf]

If there were only ten Chief's that was probably not enough to load up a position high enough to make the list.

[The Wolf]

You can see some positional logic in the nicknames - the Lefties play OF and 1B, the Rabbits play 2B, SS and OF (probably CF), the Mooses are at 1B and C, and the Pudges are at C.

[Carlton_Willey]

The nickname 'Doc' was given to smart (as in 'crafty') individuals.

An old saying, attributed to the great George Ade, was "Never play poker with a man called 'Doc'."

[The Wolf]

Yeah, but who ever heard of a smart first baseman?

[Big Six]

It seems to me that a lot of the "Chiefs" and "Heinies" were very rarely called anything else, especially after they became famous. Guys like Heinie Groh, Heinie Zimmermann, Heinie Manush; Chief Meyers, Chief Bender. Those handles become "names," in the sense that nicknames like Jack, Jimmy, Eddie, or Bill aren't really "nicknames."

The "Reds" probably weren't always redheads, even though you would have seen lots of Irish guys with red hair in the early 1900s. Some guys were called "Red" because they had fair skin and sunburned easily. I had a ballplaying relative who was called Red for that reason--a fair-skinned Finnish-American.

[Jestre]

Originally Posted by Big Six

It seems to me that a lot of the "Chiefs" and "Heinies" were very rarely called anything else, especially after they became famous. Guys like Heinie Groh, Heinie Zimmermann, Heinie Manush; Chief Meyers, Chief Bender. Those handles become "names," in the sense that nicknames like Jack, Jimmy, Eddie, or Bill aren't really "nicknames."

The "Reds" probably weren't always redheads, even though you would have seen lots of Irish guys with red hair in the early 1900s. Some guys were called "Red" because they had fair skin and sunburned easily. I had a ballplaying relative who was called Red for that reason--a fair-skinned Finnish-American.

Same thing could be said about Lefty Grove, Lefty Gomez, Lefty Leifield, Lefty O'Doul....

[Left-handed Badger]

I also figure that how some of the nicknames piled up. Was because someone had a nickname and a player that came along later reminded people of the first player and "inherited" it.