Infield Defense Ratings

[pstrickert]

What do you conclude from these infield defense ratings? This is a 1974 historical season using real stats.


INF RNG

1B: in the entire league, first basemen were rated from 2 to 11 (on a scale of 20). Nobody rated higher than an 11 (!).

2B: rated from 6 to 14.

SS: rated from 9 to 18.

3B: rated from 6 to 15.


INF ARM

1B: rated from 2 to 16 (though only one had a 16, one a 15, and nobody a 14).

2B: rated from 4 to 18 (though only one had an 18).

SS: rated from 9 to 19.

3B: rated from 9 to 20.


INF ERR

1B: rated from 2 to 11.

2B: rated from 6 to 18.

SS: rated from 9 to 20.

3B: rated from 6 to 17.


IIRC, INF RNG is based on put outs, INF ARM on assists.

Do these ratings seem right to you? Do they account for the differences between the best and the worst players at these positions?

[pstrickert]

Fielding ability is notoriously difficult to rate. Does anyone have knowledge of how the OOTP formula works? How does OOTP measure up? Is it worse or better than its competitors?

Food for thought: Diamond Mind Baseball

[knockahoma]

Hi Guy.

The 1974 season is one of my all-time favorite. I was about 10 years old and living in Georgia, where Aaron-mania was going wild at the time. 74 was also the APBA season I played (76 strat-o-matic followed, which I felt was a better game).

Excellent article. I'm trying to figure out how defense is applied in this game, as well. I keep starting the 74 season over. The players get different field ratings. And some of them are just... bizarre.

In this last attempt, I based my fielding ratings on life-time stats. Usually that gives me a more recognizable result for most players. But Darrell Chaney, a utility infielder with a good rep at 2b, ss and 3b throughout his fairly long career, arrived with a 3B-1 rating (scale of 10). No 2B. No SS. And I know Chaney went on to start at SS 2 years later for the Braves. So, it wasn't a matter of the AI seeing his last year in the bigs with limited time at 3B.

Since my APBA and Strat-o-matic days, I've always loved the defensive strategies in baseball. It's the 7th inning and you have a 2 run lead. Leave that good hitting 2B in the game, or substitute the slick utility guy for added defense?

I understand the import must go on the stats. But, it's frustrating. Without fail, the Pirates Mario Mendoza comes back at a 3 or 4. I'm old enough to remember the Pirates kept Mendoza (name-sake of the infamous Mendoza Line, the .200 batting average mark), for his superior defense over the regular SS Frank Taveras. The latter was just too speedy to keep on the bench. And yet, the Import shows Taveras to be a much better SS than Mendoza.

Because of this, I tend to stick with seasons I had in Strat-o-matic (which were several). At least, I have an idea what the player's rep was.

But, I also study how the player was used in the context of his team. The manager sure used Mendoza like he was to be more trusted with a groundball. Mendoza lasted several seasons in the majors while hitting like my little sister. He must have had SOMETHING on all those other minor league SS who could hit .184 just as well as Mario could! Scouts and managers must have believed his glove was quite superior. Or maybe he just told good jokes in the locker room!

At any rate, there are definitely clues as to what managers thought of players. The Pirates had a 1b-c-0f lefty guy named Ed Kirkpatric who could flash some power. You'd think he'd be a great backup to Manny Sanguillen. But the Pirates still went out and got a .220 hitting Duffy Dyer as Sanguillen's backup.

I guess with historical defensive questions, one's just gotta read between the lines by seeing how the player was used.

It may not be right, but at least you're following the impressions of the real manager at the time.

[OregonBeavers]

I have a question along the same lines. I am replaying the 1971 season and managing the Oakland A's. I noticed so odd ratings and started researching more. Here is what I find:

Belanger .978 fileding% 5.09 RF 61 rating
Harrelson .978 fielding% 5.12 RF 52 rating
Campaneris .960 fielding% 4.88 RF 55 rating
Speier .958 fielding% 5.04 RF 64 rating


Belanger and Harrelson were Gold Glove winners and Belanger was pretty much known as the best SS of his era. Speier was in his rookie year and was always known as a very average fielding SS. These ratings have something fubar in the formula it seems to me. Is there any methods of recalculating them anyone knows of?

[swampdragon]

Here's the problem, and I don't think it can be solved by a game using Lahman imports as a ratings base:

Belanger has a poor range factor because he can't hit. He was frequently pulled for a pinch hitter in the middle or late innings, and Lahman has no way to figure that out. We don't have an innings played stat available in the database, and the information is just plain unavailable in the pre-Retrosheet years. Same problem with Mendoza, only worse. He was a frequent defensive replacement, so he has many games where he only played a couple of innings. Not good for the range factor.

Back in the days of OOTP3, it was just accepted that defense would have to be edited to get decent historical ratings. That's no longer necessary in most cases, but I think the defensive replacements and the weak hitters are exceptions.

[swampdragon]

Given its limitations, I think OOTP does about as well with defense as it can for a game that doesn't produce individual season disks. Except in the circumstances of the previous posts, I think its ratings match up pretty well with the other games. That's really good, because the other games charge $20 and up for a season disk and make individualized judgments about fielding ability. They have to be a little better, and it's amazing that they're not a lot better.

[Peter]

I'm not sure this belongs here, but, when advancing to my next year all major league defensive infielders had a drop of over 100 points in their ratings. What was a range of 150+ became 15 or so, arm strength dropped from 150+ to the teens, if happened for all infield values. All thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.

Pete