Authentic gameplay: Plays to Home

SteveP · 02-09-2009, 05:23 PM

Next to the amount of PH/PR going on, the behavior that I saw in individual OOTP games, which bothered me the most, was how runners on 3rd would almost always score on GBs hit to infielders. It did not seem like defenders ever tried to prevent the run in those situations.

Looking at it a little more closely suggested a pattern in OOTP. If the infield played in, the runner on 3rd never tried to advance. If the infield played normal, the GB play was always to the force out (or to the hoped for DP, which was likely set up by a IBB if necessary). There are two exceptions to this: bunts and balls hit to the pitcher with bases loaded.

IRL, runners on 3rd were more often frozen there by infield play on GBs, or plays were made at home more often, than I was seeing in OOTP. I can’t quantify this – it’s just weight of observation. (Note: I have been playing through a 1960 league, game-by-game, and comparing what happens with box scores and game logs from the same games actually played in 1960).

AFAIK, the “Infield In” slider in the team manager pages is the only tool we have to influence how often runners on 3rd get a free pass home on infield GBs. I have been setting this all the way to “frequently” on all the teams in my 1960 league. I have no way of evaluating if this is the “best” setting, or if some place slightly to the left would be better. But, so far, I’ve been unable to detect anything really negative from setting it there. I’m sure there must be some hits occurring that would otherwise be handled by infielders, but it certainly isn’t dramatic. OTOH, it does make scoring from 3rd on an infield GB noticeably less automatic. It also increases the likelihood of a play at home, infielder to catcher, with bases loaded, which happened very, very rarely before.

On a related note: IRL, you see non-force plays made at 3rd or at Home on infield GBs (that is, the infielder throws for the tag on the advancing runner rather than for the force out). Not a lot, but not all that rare either. With one exception, I’ve only seen this happen in OOTP on bunt plays. The exception was a bottom-of-the-ninth, winning run heading home situation. I was glad to see it, because it meant that it could happen in OOTP. But it is much too rare, which does take away some excitement from the game. I haven’t come across anything that an OOTP gameplayer can do to influence this behavior, so at this point it’s just an observation.

robc · 02-12-2009, 11:58 PM

I agree. Runners almost always score from 3B on an infield groundball if the infield is not it, unless the ball is hit to the pitcher. I don't recall seeing them thrown out at home. I think I may have seen them not advance from 3B a handful of times.

PhillieFever · 02-13-2009, 09:30 AM

I've actually tested this quite often to try to get it right,and setting it all the way to frequently or one notch less is perfect.the ai will always play in unless there is one out and a chance at a double play

satchel · 02-23-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robc

I agree. Runners almost always score from 3B on an infield groundball if the infield is not it, unless the ball is hit to the pitcher. I don't recall seeing them thrown out at home. I think I may have seen them not advance from 3B a handful of times.

I've seen the force-out at home quite a bit, but I've always assumed that the infield was indeed playing in (there's no way to tell when watching replays).

SteveP · 02-23-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satchel

I've seen the force-out at home quite a bit, but I've always assumed that the infield was indeed playing in (there's no way to tell when watching replays).

Yes, you get a force out at home when the infield is playing in. What you won't see is a non-force play at home on a grounder hit to an infielder. Either the runner won't go (because the infield is playing in) or the defense will let him score.

As I said, I've only seen a non-force play at home on a grounder once in OOTP in several hundred games I've looked at. I'm not saying it happened a lot IRL. But I would have expected to see it several times during a season.

I have also never seen a non-force play at 3rd on a grounder to an infielder, but it may haven't once or twice when I wasn't looking.

satchel · 02-23-2009, 05:00 PM

I understand, thanks for the clarification.

SteveP, I really like your work, and what you're doing here. I do hope that you can be involved with beta testing for OOTPX if you want to be. I also hope that you can work with the others who have been checking out these kinds of things (PhillieFever, SydThrift), I think you would make a great team.

Thanks again, for all that you've been doing, the "Authentic gameplay" series is excellent.

Jah · 02-24-2009, 01:07 PM

Just wanted to chime in to thank SteveP for his efforts - and I sure hope he is part of the beta team at some point.

02-09-2009, 05:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
SteveP Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,768 Thanked 260x in 197 posts	Authentic gameplay: Plays to Home Next to the amount of PH/PR going on, the behavior that I saw in individual OOTP games, which bothered me the most, was how runners on 3rd would almost always score on GBs hit to infielders. It did not seem like defenders ever tried to prevent the run in those situations. Looking at it a little more closely suggested a pattern in OOTP. If the infield played in, the runner on 3rd never tried to advance. If the infield played normal, the GB play was always to the force out (or to the hoped for DP, which was likely set up by a IBB if necessary). There are two exceptions to this: bunts and balls hit to the pitcher with bases loaded. IRL, runners on 3rd were more often frozen there by infield play on GBs, or plays were made at home more often, than I was seeing in OOTP. I can’t quantify this – it’s just weight of observation. (Note: I have been playing through a 1960 league, game-by-game, and comparing what happens with box scores and game logs from the same games actually played in 1960). AFAIK, the “Infield In” slider in the team manager pages is the only tool we have to influence how often runners on 3rd get a free pass home on infield GBs. I have been setting this all the way to “frequently” on all the teams in my 1960 league. I have no way of evaluating if this is the “best” setting, or if some place slightly to the left would be better. But, so far, I’ve been unable to detect anything really negative from setting it there. I’m sure there must be some hits occurring that would otherwise be handled by infielders, but it certainly isn’t dramatic. OTOH, it does make scoring from 3rd on an infield GB noticeably less automatic. It also increases the likelihood of a play at home, infielder to catcher, with bases loaded, which happened very, very rarely before. On a related note: IRL, you see non-force plays made at 3rd or at Home on infield GBs (that is, the infielder throws for the tag on the advancing runner rather than for the force out). Not a lot, but not all that rare either. With one exception, I’ve only seen this happen in OOTP on bunt plays. The exception was a bottom-of-the-ninth, winning run heading home situation. I was glad to see it, because it meant that it could happen in OOTP. But it is much too rare, which does take away some excitement from the game. I haven’t come across anything that an OOTP gameplayer can do to influence this behavior, so at this point it’s just an observation.

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02-12-2009, 11:58 PM	#2 (permalink)
robc All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,603 Thanked 245x in 150 posts	I agree. Runners almost always score from 3B on an infield groundball if the infield is not it, unless the ball is hit to the pitcher. I don't recall seeing them thrown out at home. I think I may have seen them not advance from 3B a handful of times.

02-13-2009, 09:30 AM	#3 (permalink)
PhillieFever Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Philly Posts: 5,848 Thanked 289x in 252 posts	I've actually tested this quite often to try to get it right,and setting it all the way to frequently or one notch less is perfect.the ai will always play in unless there is one out and a chance at a double play

02-23-2009, 05:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith AR Posts: 2,680 Thanked 48x in 26 posts	I understand, thanks for the clarification. SteveP, I really like your work, and what you're doing here. I do hope that you can be involved with beta testing for OOTPX if you want to be. I also hope that you can work with the others who have been checking out these kinds of things (PhillieFever, SydThrift), I think you would make a great team. Thanks again, for all that you've been doing, the "Authentic gameplay" series is excellent.

02-24-2009, 01:07 PM	#7 (permalink)
Jah Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 148 Thanked 3x in 1 post	Just wanted to chime in to thank SteveP for his efforts - and I sure hope he is part of the beta team at some point.