[kq76]

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

Here's the thing: Any players given an endurance between 25 and 50 on the 1-100 scale in OOTP 9 were, intentionally or not, created as spot starters. They need to convert over as borderline starters because that's what they were pre-conversion.

Now, Cherry is getting to start over Millwood because his ratings are better, plain and simple.

If you have issues with the way that the game converted your players, there is an easy fix. Just edit any of the offending borderline starters to have a stamina less than 50 on the 1-200 scale and they will be given roles of Bullpen only.

25 endurance sounds awfully low for a starter of any kind in OOTP9. I thought I was pushing it at 40.

Regardless, thanks for the tip for our conversions.

[Nutlaw]

Originally Posted by Chomps

I did import an OOTP 9 League into OOTP 10. Based on what Nutlaw said, I searched through my list of players with a rating of 5 or less so that I could change them to less than 5. I discovered that in a player's profile or when using the custom search function, the ratings are listed between 1 - 20, however in the player editor the ratings are listed from 1 - 250. Using the search function for example, Saito shows up as a 5. When I go into the player editor he was listed as 45.

Why aren't the same rating scales used between the player profile, search function and the editor?

It appears that numbers are rounded up also...a 45 in the editor shows up as a 5 in the player profile.

Pitchers are automatically determined to be relievers with a rating of less than 50 on the 1-200 (or 1-250 if you'd rather) rating scale seen in the editor.

[Nutlaw]

Originally Posted by kq76

25 endurance sounds awfully low for a starter of any kind in OOTP9. I thought I was pushing it at 40.

Regardless, thanks for the tip for our conversions.

Originally Posted by JoeGoNets

I'll start by saying that I have only been playing for a few days, but wouldn't this be a potential resolution to this, as a patch:

The AI shall not attempt to convert a reliever into a starter unless the reliever's potential stamina is at least X, with X being say, 8, 9, or 10 on the 20 point scale.

Wouldn't that do it?

As an aside, in the absence of a patch, I would think this issue would become a problem in new games as well as imported games, but we'll see.

There's no problem in new games. Pitchers with these endurance levels are meant to start.

Again, any pitcher with greater than 50 and less than 100 endurance on the 1-200 scale was able to start in OOTP 9 with reduced effectiveness. OOTP 10 does nothing to change this. The AI was less likely to use those guys as starters in OOTP 9 than OOTP 10, but many human users did employ these borderline starters as starting pitchers. It would create a severe drop in value for those players if they were converted as bullpen only.

As for an option to prevent the AI from using borderline or emergency starters in the starting rotation, that would probably get you what you want, though admittedly it would decrease the AI's effectiveness.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Just as Nutlaw says, in OOTP 9, any pitcher with an endurance of 25 or better (out of 100) could give you at least 90+ pitches as a starter before being tired. It makes no difference if he threw 1 inning per appearance in the past. How he performs in the starter role is a different subject, but the stamina was there for 5-6 innings. So in this regard, there was no change between OOTP 9 and OOTP 10, the conversion process makes sure that these playerd, when used as starters, perform similar than they would have in OOTP 9. Now, the AI has changed, but it is now smarter and uses its available pitchers better.

Now regarding Millwood, there seems to be a problem with overall ratings at times. It is being looked into.

[Chomps]

My previous question regarding ratings still has not been answered. The following information is from the Manual -

Game Menu | Game Setup | Global Setup tab:

OOTP supports any of the following ratings scales:

•NONE displayed - This will prevent ratings from displaying. Even if ratings are not displayed, however, they still exist and are used by the computer in decision-making. They are simply not visible to the human player.
•1 to 5
•2 to 8
•1 to 10
•1 to 20
•20 to 80 (in increments of 5)
•1 to 100

As in OOTP 9, the bare minimum endurance (now called Stamina) needed in order to start is 50 on the 1-200 scale.

The Pitching Ratings section on the top right allows you to set the player's pitching ratings. Remember to hit Enter after editing any text fields! Pitching ratings, unless otherwise noted, are on a 1-250 scale. These values are then converted to whatever rating scale you use in game. For example, a 250 will become an 80 on a 20-80 scale, or a 100 on a 1-100 scale.

This is a quote from Nutlaw:
"Again, any pitcher with greater than 50 and less than 100 endurance on the 1-200 scale was able to start in OOTP 9 with reduced effectiveness."

I don't see anywhere within OOTP 10 that I can adjust a ratings scale to 1 - 200. Why the discrepancy in the ratings scales?

In order to prevent the AI Manager from inserting Closers into the starting pitching rotaion I will need to do the following:
If I am using the 1 - 100 scale for all ratings I will need to edit my Closer's so that they have a stamina rating of less than 25. However, in the Player Editor, I will need to make the stamina rating of less than 62 (62.5) on the 1 - 250 ratings scale which is used in the editor...correct?

[Nutlaw]

Originally Posted by Chomps

I don't see anywhere within OOTP 10 that I can adjust a ratings scale to 1 - 200. Why the discrepancy in the ratings scales?

In order to prevent the AI Manager from inserting Closers into the starting pitching rotaion I will need to do the following:
If I am using the 1 - 100 scale for all ratings I will need to edit my Closer's so that they have a stamina rating of less than 25. However, in the Player Editor, I will need to make the stamina rating of less than 62 (62.5) on the 1 - 250 ratings scale which is used in the editor...correct?

The editor uses a 1-200 scale. Anything over 200 is considered exceptional. It will display as 100 on the 1-100 scale as long as you have the setting not to display values over maximum, or something like that. If you display values over max, the 1-100 scale will actually give you values up to 125. (I know, it's needlessly confusing.)

You need to edit any relievers you don't want to start to have less than a 50 endurance in the editor.

[HH20xx convert]

If you have issues with the way that the game converted your players, there is an easy fix. Just edit any of the offending borderline starters to have a stamina less than 50 on the 1-200 scale and they will be given roles of Bullpen only.[/QUOTE]

That might be a 'fix', but unless there is a global player editor function of which I'm not aware, I wouldn't call the fix easy---to maintain league integrity you would have to manually change each individual player involved for every team's 40 man roster at a minimum.

Is there a global editor function (OOTP or mod) to make this feasible?
Are you planning to change this in a patch for those of us who prefer to wait?

Thanks for your comments---and here's a vote for a patch fix.

[Chomps]

Yes the rating system is very confusing. Why does the player editor show a 1 - 250 ratings scale, when you are saying that it uses a 1 - 200 ratings scale? I have never seen the option for using a 1 - 200 scale within the game setup/editor.

[TribeFanInNC]

The editor uses 1-250 just to give it better resolution. This is how the values are stored in the database. The scale is essentially 1-200 because 99.9% of all values fall in this range. The 201-250 area is just for exceptional performance. For instance, Rickey Henderson would probably have a stealing skill above 200. But, for all intents and purposes it is a 1-200 scale.

The 2-8 or 1-100 scale you choose is just how the information is displayed to you.

As Nutlaw said, it is a little needlessly complex.

[Chomps]

Thanks! Finally I understand.

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by HH20xx convert

If you have issues with the way that the game converted your players, there is an easy fix. Just edit any of the offending borderline starters to have a stamina less than 50 on the 1-200 scale and they will be given roles of Bullpen only.

That might be a 'fix', but unless there is a global player editor function of which I'm not aware, I wouldn't call the fix easy---to maintain league integrity you would have to manually change each individual player involved for every team's 40 man roster at a minimum.

Is there a global editor function (OOTP or mod) to make this feasible?
Are you planning to change this in a patch for those of us who prefer to wait?

Thanks for your comments---and here's a vote for a patch fix.[/QUOTE]

Seconded, especially considering that the highly requested MASS SELECT feature has yet to be instituted.

[nyy26wc]

Originally Posted by HH20xx convert

That might be a 'fix', but unless there is a global player editor function of which I'm not aware, I wouldn't call the fix easy---to maintain league integrity you would have to manually change each individual player involved for every team's 40 man roster at a minimum.

You're right. It is definitely not an easy fix. It took hours to do it. But, of course, why should anybody else care, since it's not their hours that had to be wasted.

I genuinely hope that OOTP 11 screws up something like speed rating and have 5 SB a year players start stealing 50+ bases a year, so I can sit here and tell everybody that all you have to do is just edit every single slow player in the majors's speed.

After all, what is the difference? The same exact arguments that are based raised by the defenders of the system would also equally apply to the SB situation. Why wouldn't it just be a "pre conceived notion" that the players wouldn't steal 50 bases a year.

[Chomps]

Ok, so my closer on the Dodgers - Saito now has a Stamina rating of 14 after I changed it in the editor based on what was suggested in this forum. I am in the playoffs and the schedule shows Billingsley (Dodgers) pitching against Lily (Cubs). I chose to manage the game and then was taken to the game options screen where it showed that I was listed as in control for all categories - Offense, Defense, etc....Then I clicked on the Lineup & Starting Pitchers tab so that I could view my lineup. Saito is listed as the starting pitcher. Why is he still being inserted as a starting pitcher? What the heck is going on?

[battists]

I don't believe that anyone here doesn't care that you had to waste a lot of time. I believe that Nutlaw and others were offering at least a short-term workaround to allow you to accomplish what you want with your converted league.

I think this thread is suffering to certain extent from "multiple topic syndrome." I know that Markus indicated above that he is looking into at least some components of what is mentioned in this thread. It's possible that this issue will be wholly resolved by however Markus addresses this issue.

On the other hand, it is a big challenge to implement a new system like this. Everyone has different ideas about different aspects of the system, and different ways of playing the game, and unfortunately, it's just not mathematically possible to make every player work exactly as they did in OOTP 9. But, that doesn't mean we're not willing to keep looking at things to try to make them better. I'm sorry that it has negatively impacted your converted league, and we'll do our best to make adjustments.

Steve

[Chomps]

Thanks Steve, glad you guys are looking into the issue. Just wondering why the workaround wasn't working.

[nyy26wc]

Not having everybody perform exactly as he did in OOTP 9 is a strawman argument.

The problem is pitchers being used realistically. Having 20-25% of the starting pitchers in the league being entrenched relievers is a highly unrealistic situation.

The problem here is OOTP 9 inflated endurances of relievers. The solution would then be to have the import process adjust their endurance. Instead, all I have seen from the powers that be is a defense of the system. The only acknowledgment that I've seen that a problem exists is Millwood's OVR could be wrong, which is completely a side issue.

Furthermore, Markus even states that these relievers aren't going to be that effective as starters. Most of them are effective relievers. So, they are bring taken out of situations where they succeed and being used where many will fail. Then, their failures as starters puts increased burdens on the whiz, are also burdened by no longer having them as being effective relievers.

[HH20xx convert]

Originally Posted by battists

I don't believe that anyone here doesn't care that you had to waste a lot of time. I believe that Nutlaw and others were offering at least a short-term workaround to allow you to accomplish what you want with your converted league.

I think this thread is suffering to certain extent from "multiple topic syndrome." I know that Markus indicated above that he is looking into at least some components of what is mentioned in this thread. It's possible that this issue will be wholly resolved by however Markus addresses this issue.

On the other hand, it is a big challenge to implement a new system like this. Everyone has different ideas about different aspects of the system, and different ways of playing the game, and unfortunately, it's just not mathematically possible to make every player work exactly as they did in OOTP 9. But, that doesn't mean we're not willing to keep looking at things to try to make them better. I'm sorry that it has negatively impacted your converted league, and we'll do our best to make adjustments.

Steve

Thanks for your quick reply. I always appreciate that OOTP takes comments seriously. The reason the thread has 'multiple topic syndrome' is Markus's answer boils down to 'its presently working as it was intended to' without stating whether changes were being actively considered. Looking into the 'Millwood' issue is looking into the least important aspect of the problem being described.

You are certainly right that Markus's work may wholly resolve the problem, but there is nothing in his answer that suggests a complete fix is even under active consideration. Bottom line--pitchers that tire at 90 pitches even in the modern era are seldom in the starting rotation, but after conversion guys that tire at about 90 pitches constitute 40% of starting rotations (per the comment above)--that is a glitch that needs a fix to make any conversions other than online leagues work properly. I think we are looking for an acknowledgment of the problem, which has very little to do with the Millwood issue.

[Nutlaw]

In BZ 3078, Markus said that he is tweaking the AI's selection of who to put in the rotation a bit.

Borderline Starters will still be borderline starters, but presumably the AI will prefer Starters over Borderline Starters a little more often in the next patch.

[texasmame]

Status check. . .

[Vopat]

After my import from a OOTP 9 game many of my hard throwing pitchers had their pitching MPH decreased. A 28 year old was throwing 101+ now is maxing out at 94 MPH without any injuries.