Opinions Please. Why aren't there any 40 team leagues?

[maxxavier]

Personally, I think it would be GREAT fun to participate in a 40 team league. Can you imagine playing against 39 other people? Wouldn't that make the Championship that much more meaningful? I don't know. I'm just curious as to why I haven't seen any 40 team leagues out there... maybe it's just too much work for the commish? or what? Please comment.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by maxxavier

Personally, I think it would be GREAT fun to participate in a 40 team league. Can you imagine playing against 39 other people? Wouldn't that make the Championship that much more meaningful? I don't know. I'm just curious as to why I haven't seen any 40 team leagues out there... maybe it's just too much work for the commish? or what? Please comment.

There have been some leagues that got up to 36-40 in size in the past. I think the biggest issue is just keeping a league that size filled the entire time.

What is done far more common is a league with an active waiting list will end up with a second "Foreign" league where waiting list members can play until a team opens up.

[TGH-Adfabre]

Keeping GMs seems like it would be difficult. I am in a 20 team and 1-3 people leave for one reason or another most seasons. 10-20% changover in a league that size seems like it would be difficult to manage.
Just my $.02.

[maxxavier]

With the amount of leagues that ARE out there, I'd assume that it would be possible to find good GM's to stay around in a league like that. I'm just looking for a general opinion. Thank You Guys.

[Jaxxvain]

World Baseball Hierarchy

The WBH has 56 teams now, and I think it is full at the moment.

It was once 88 teams, and maybe again someday. Great league, active boards, always someone to trade with.

There has been a high turnover rate for the GMs outside the core 50 or so.

[ukhotstove]

I think it would also depend on what you had to offer, upto date rosters, historical, fictional etc.

[pucku33]

it is very difficult to fill a league of that size with ACTIVE gms.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Jaxxvain

World Baseball Hierarchy

The WBH has 56 teams now, and I think it is full at the moment.

It was once 88 teams, and maybe again someday. Great league, active boards, always someone to trade with.

There has been a high turnover rate for the GMs outside the core 50 or so.

I'm glad its doing well again. I had a pretty bad experience in my short run there with nothing but bickering and missed deadlines and no communication, that covered weeks and months.

This is not a slam but just an opinion that big leagues seem to have more problems than small ones dealing with turnover. I'm happy in my smaller leagues.

[ptwarr18]

Sorry to hear you had the experience Rich, I've been in it since 2011 (sim years) - it's now 2019. I'd suspect you were in the league in the 2015-2018 ish range.

Our original Commish stepped down around 2015, and I think we went thru 4 or 5 guys in the 2015-2018 timespan. They kept the league afloat, but yes, there were a lot of problems.

So much so that me, a longtime member almost left too. We've got ANOTHER new Commish, and he's been doing a great job. So, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it continues, but things look better there now than they have for a while.

And I didn't interpret your post as a slam, that's just how it was when you were in it. Hopefully we're past all that though!

[Jaxxvain]

it is worth noting that with 40 plus teams you may need to be "outside the box" with something, specifically playoffs.

The WBH is a promotion/relegation system where technically you were competing in one of 11 leagues (now 7) of 8 teams each. Top team gets a promotion, bottom team gets relegated (most teams have something to play for.

If you have a 40+ team league, and only allow say 8 teams in the playoffs, you have 32 owners who are not involved to some extent.

[Bristolduke]

I had a 36 team set up. 6x6 with lots of playoffs and league rivalies. Didn't get any real interest.

[kq76]

I'm a bit surprised a lot of people are voting a flat out no, but maybe I shouldn't be.

Keeping a large league full would no doubt be difficult, but what I'd think would be an even bigger issue is can the commish just keep up. I could see it maybe working if you had a commish who just did the sims, but had others who helped out with the recruiting, the website, etc. If one person had to do everything on their own though? Forget it. Running a small to average sized league well can be a lot of work at times. A 40 team league, without a serious amount of help, would be a neverending nightmare.

[maxxavier]

Originally Posted by kq76

I'm a bit surprised a lot of people are voting a flat out no, but maybe I shouldn't be.

Keeping a large league full would no doubt be difficult, but what I'd think would be an even bigger issue is can the commish just keep up. I could see it maybe working if you had a commish who just did the sims, but had others who helped out with the recruiting, the website, etc. If one person had to do everything on their own though? Forget it. Running a small to average sized league well can be a lot of work at times. A 40 team league, without a serious amount of help, would be a neverending nightmare.

I'm surprised as well. I do agree that you'd have to have a commish that just did the sims and maybe helped with recruiting, website etc... I think it would be great though. Look at the number of leagues out there. Look at the number of GM's who actually show up and stick around. I think this type of thing could be pulled off...given the league type and structure was something that people want to be a part of.

[Nutlaw]

Keeping the league running would definitely be a problem, but no one else brought up the fact that it would be hard to gain familiarity with such a league. When I'm playing an online league, I want to know the guys I'm playing against and I want to have some familiarity with the other teams and players in the league. As soon as you start creeping up above MLB numbers, that goes out the window. Sure, there would be more competition, but there would also be more overload. Everything beyond your own team sort've becomes faceless, and that's no fun to me.

[TGH-Adfabre]

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

Keeping the league running would definitely be a problem, but no one else brought up the fact that it would be hard to gain familiarity with such a league. When I'm playing an online league, I want to know the guys I'm playing against and I want to have some familiarity with the other teams and players in the league. As soon as you start creeping up above MLB numbers, that goes out the window. Sure, there would be more competition, but there would also be more overload. Everything beyond your own team sort've becomes faceless, and that's no fun to me.

I have not played in a league that size.
I can say one of the best things about our league is the community among the GMs.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

Keeping the league running would definitely be a problem, but no one else brought up the fact that it would be hard to gain familiarity with such a league. When I'm playing an online league, I want to know the guys I'm playing against and I want to have some familiarity with the other teams and players in the league. As soon as you start creeping up above MLB numbers, that goes out the window. Sure, there would be more competition, but there would also be more overload. Everything beyond your own team sort've becomes faceless, and that's no fun to me.

I definitely also share the wanting to get to know your league mates part, but I'm not sure that a large league in itself makes that more difficult. Maybe it does, but based on my own experiences I'm not sure that's definitely how it is. I think whatever league you're in, if you participate on the boards and others do too then you'll get to know your league mates. If you or they don't then you won't. The more people in the league, however, I imagine the more likely there will be people other than yourself who do talk though.

Sometimes I wish I could, but I don't usually feel the need to get to really know the other teams and their players. I am a bit envious of people who show they can do that, but for the most part I'm content just knowing my own team. Sure, you want to investigate players that you're thinking of acquiring, but other than that I don't care too much about other players. So whether it's 400 or 1200 other players, it doesn't matter to me.

Interesting points nonetheless though. The CBL is thinking of expanding and before this thread I had no idea that there were any negative views in general of large leagues so even if I don't share those views it's eye-opening to realize that some people do.

[maxxavier]

Out of all of the negatives, one worry I hear over and over, is the lack of good GM's or Lack of Knowing the other Gm's. Well, Like I said before, There are SO MANY leagues out there, with so many people in multiple leagues at a time. Why couldn't there be "best of" league or something like it. where someone recruits the BEST GM's or longstanding GM's to join ONE league? Or something along those lines.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by maxxavier

Out of all of the negatives, one worry I hear over and over, is the lack of good GM's or Lack of Knowing the other Gm's. Well, Like I said before, There are SO MANY leagues out there, with so many people in multiple leagues at a time. Why couldn't there be "best of" league or something like it. where someone recruits the BEST GM's or longstanding GM's to join ONE league? Or something along those lines.

Because no one league with one set of rules, etc appeals to everyone. I know I'm very particular about what I want in a league and most leagues just don't hit the mark. Even leagues that by my point of view look awesome and that I'd easily tell people they should try might not appeal to me for something as simple as no finances or no ratings. It doesn't mean they're bad leagues, they just don't appeal to me. My guess is most people once they've tried a few probably find themselves with the same problem.

I'll admit I do believe that was one of the appeals to me of a huge league I was in which had (has?) 80 or so teams. You had to figure that with all the people that you'd probably be competing against quite a few very good GMs and that was certainly appealing, but in our smaller sub-leagues you ended up competing against a much smaller group of people (12?). I also didn't stay that long and it might take a year or so in real time to really get to know your league mates in any league.

"Best of" leagues have been tried before, but as far as I know they haven't fared so well. Why I don't know as I wouldn't say I was ever really in one, but it just seemed like they never really caught on and stayed going for a prolonged period of time. Different people probably have different ideas of what constitutes success though so maybe some would vehemently disagree even if they didn't last long. I might also just not be thinking of a particular best of league that has been doing well for a long time.

One best of league that does come to mind was the official OOTP league from several years ago that Markus was in and it seemed like the league to try to get in to, but when I actually looked at their boards it didn't look like it was that active nor that exciting. I'm trying to remember who its commissioner was. Maybe it was an awesome league, but it didn't seem like it from the outside so I didn't pursue trying to get into it. Maybe if it was Markus might still be in some online leagues. Or maybe he is, but just under an alias.

[coljesep]

More teams in a league the greater the chance for multiple deadbeat owners. I'd rather have a league of 28 with maybe 4 who don't participate as much than a league with 40 teams with maybe twice as many deadbeats cycling through.

Plus the talent pool of players would likely be so thin.