Adjusting Market Sizes

Inside Outside · 05-01-2009, 05:13 PM

I've been messing around with the demo for the past couple of weeks and there's been one main thing that I haven't been able to figure out. When creating a fictional league, I've noticed that there seems to be no relationship between a city's real life size and market size in the game. For example, in the fictional league I have now Los Angeles has the smallest market size. I found a way to randomize the league's financials, but is there any way to adjust things market size and fan loyalty manually?

Edit: It's been stumping me for almost a month, and then as soon as I post a thread about it I think to turn on Commissioner Mode!

Bluenoser · 05-01-2009, 05:33 PM

Yes, you can edit pretty much anything in Commish mode.

SteveP · 05-01-2009, 07:50 PM

The game works things the wrong way round. It creates the players, then creates the salaries, then decides what size the town needs to be, etc, to be just appropriate to support the salary.

You need to be aware of that when you edit the town sizes, etc. In some cases, if you make the towns too realistic in relationship to each other, too fast, you get extreme behavior from the AI: too much shedding of payroll, or too much free agent buying, or some such thing. It's a good idea to take a gradual approach to getting the towns in line.

FWIW.

Inside Outside · 05-01-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveP

The game works things the wrong way round. It creates the players, then creates the salaries, then decides what size the town needs to be, etc, to be just appropriate to support the salary.

You need to be aware of that when you edit the town sizes, etc. In some cases, if you make the towns too realistic in relationship to each other, too fast, you get extreme behavior from the AI: too much shedding of payroll, or too much free agent buying, or some such thing. It's a good idea to take a gradual approach to getting the towns in line.

FWIW.

Could I avoid this by setting up all the market sizes and fan loyalty before the inaugural draft? I'm only on the demo right now and I'm holding out for OOTP 10 so I'm not at risk of messing up my league here.

snnort · 05-02-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inside Outside

Could I avoid this by setting up all the market sizes and fan loyalty before the inaugural draft? I'm only on the demo right now and I'm holding out for OOTP 10 so I'm not at risk of messing up my league here.

Nope.

Any changes you make to the market size and fan loyalty before the inaugural draft will be changed by the OOTP 9 engine once the draft is completed. The AI will draft based on what it thinks is the best player for the team when each pick comes up, with no basis on what you set the market at prior.

Then after the draft, the OOTP 9 engine will, automatically readjust the market and fan loyalty to "fit" with whatever payroll each team ended up with.

There's nothing you can do about it short of waiting until the inaugural draft improvements with OOTP 10 are released.

I've wrestled with this myself.

SteveP · 05-02-2009, 04:51 PM

snnort answered your question one way, and I'll give you a slightly different answer: don't try to fix the problem all at once. Make relatively small adjustments each year (if you are playing multiyear), so that the AI doesn't have to make extreme changes in a single season. For example, you can still make NY your biggest market (as an example) but it doesn't have to be twice as big as everyone else in the first season. As a rule of thumb, adjusting a city size by two levels at a time probably is the most you want to do -- although the impact of adjusting upward is less of a problem than adjusting downward.

In short, it can be seen as a cup-half-full situation -- just work at it over a period of time.

Hope that helps.

Inside Outside · 05-02-2009, 07:22 PM

I've read a couple of times elsewhere that it's a good idea to sim the first ten or fifteen years so I guess I'll adjust the financials every year while I'm doing that then. Thanks for the input, everyone.

SteveP · 05-03-2009, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inside Outside

I've read a couple of times elsewhere that it's a good idea to sim the first ten or fifteen years.

That's just someone's opinion. Don't take it as gospel. I've never played that way, and don't intend to start. The important thing to understand is that the market size issue is mostly something in your head. It doesn't have much impact on how the game plays, or even how realistic it is. However, if you are into simming over several seasons, you can certainly use that to get the market size/salary structure situation into line. Enjoy!

KGrob · 05-08-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inside Outside

I've read a couple of times elsewhere that it's a good idea to sim the first ten or fifteen years so I guess I'll adjust the financials every year while I'm doing that then. Thanks for the input, everyone.

I sim three seasons and then generally take the weakest team. That seems like a good minimum to me to get a decent feel for how the various players will perform and to provide three seasons of data for each player. Obviously, more seasons would offer a bit more realism.

My computer isn't particularly fast. I think it would take an all nighter to Sim 12-15 seasons. I'd need to run the game at night while I slept.

darkcloud4579 · 05-08-2009, 09:44 PM

You can check out MarkCalc9 or MarketCalc 8 Historical, two apps I created for the game that will let you create somewhat accurate market sizes manually or inputting figures from the game to get numbers that reflect correctly.

They're both in my signature.

Scruff · 07-12-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkcloud4579

You can check out MarkCalc9 or MarketCalc 8 Historical, two apps I created for the game that will let you create somewhat accurate market sizes manually or inputting figures from the game to get numbers that reflect correctly.

They're both in my signature.

I don't see them in your signature, am I missing something? Would love to see them. Is there a MarkCalc10?

Also, is this something that can be preset, for historical sims? Is there a way to have OOTP use the actual populations of cities/markets for each year (or each 10 year period, based on census data)?

darkcloud4579 · 09-04-2009, 02:14 PM

I had not, up to now, made a new version of MarketCalc. But I'm considering updating for the new version this weekend.

Here's a link to MarketCalc 9

05-01-2009, 05:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
Inside Outside Bat Boy Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Adjusting Market Sizes I've been messing around with the demo for the past couple of weeks and there's been one main thing that I haven't been able to figure out. When creating a fictional league, I've noticed that there seems to be no relationship between a city's real life size and market size in the game. For example, in the fictional league I have now Los Angeles has the smallest market size. I found a way to randomize the league's financials, but is there any way to adjust things market size and fan loyalty manually? Edit: It's been stumping me for almost a month, and then as soon as I post a thread about it I think to turn on Commissioner Mode! Last edited by Inside Outside; 05-01-2009 at 05:15 PM.

05-01-2009, 05:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 5,598 Thanks: 56 Thanked 442x in 307 posts	Yes, you can edit pretty much anything in Commish mode. __________________ It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?

05-08-2009, 09:44 PM	#10 (permalink)
darkcloud4579 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,297 Blog Entries: 29 Thanks: 89 Thanked 77x in 45 posts	You can check out MarkCalc9 or MarketCalc 8 Historical, two apps I created for the game that will let you create somewhat accurate market sizes manually or inputting figures from the game to get numbers that reflect correctly. They're both in my signature. __________________ SLOP: Commissioner FOBL: Marlboro Townies FOFC-FBCB: Kansas Jayhawks ZOMGFL: Colorado Buffaloes Omnivore FBS Computer Ranking Last edited by darkcloud4579; 05-08-2009 at 09:45 PM.

09-04-2009, 02:14 PM	#12 (permalink)
darkcloud4579 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,297 Blog Entries: 29 Thanks: 89 Thanked 77x in 45 posts	I had not, up to now, made a new version of MarketCalc. But I'm considering updating for the new version this weekend. Here's a link to MarketCalc 9 __________________ SLOP: Commissioner FOBL: Marlboro Townies FOFC-FBCB: Kansas Jayhawks ZOMGFL: Colorado Buffaloes Omnivore FBS Computer Ranking

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

05-01-2009, 07:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
SteveP Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,776 Thanks: 6 Thanked 261x in 198 posts	The game works things the wrong way round. It creates the players, then creates the salaries, then decides what size the town needs to be, etc, to be just appropriate to support the salary. You need to be aware of that when you edit the town sizes, etc. In some cases, if you make the towns too realistic in relationship to each other, too fast, you get extreme behavior from the AI: too much shedding of payroll, or too much free agent buying, or some such thing. It's a good idea to take a gradual approach to getting the towns in line. FWIW.

05-02-2009, 04:51 PM	#6 (permalink)
SteveP Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,776 Thanks: 6 Thanked 261x in 198 posts	snnort answered your question one way, and I'll give you a slightly different answer: don't try to fix the problem all at once. Make relatively small adjustments each year (if you are playing multiyear), so that the AI doesn't have to make extreme changes in a single season. For example, you can still make NY your biggest market (as an example) but it doesn't have to be twice as big as everyone else in the first season. As a rule of thumb, adjusting a city size by two levels at a time probably is the most you want to do -- although the impact of adjusting upward is less of a problem than adjusting downward. In short, it can be seen as a cup-half-full situation -- just work at it over a period of time. Hope that helps.

05-02-2009, 07:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
Inside Outside Bat Boy Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	I've read a couple of times elsewhere that it's a good idea to sim the first ten or fifteen years so I guess I'll adjust the financials every year while I'm doing that then. Thanks for the input, everyone.