Some clarification needed 19th century

AESP_pres · 05-07-2011, 06:04 PM

It took me a while but finally last night I've understood how to set the 19th century with the real teams, league and schedules. I know some had talked about this, but sometimes I need a picture to get it

Anyway now the frame for 1871 is set (the playoff is imaginary I know...)

I just need a couple of explanations about the rest (just to be sure I understand right).

After the season when a team cease to exist
1. When exactly I must do it (I suppose the pre-season the following year)?
2. I have to release all the players manually right?

League creation and demise
1. When the new league start (AA, UA and PL) I just create them in the league addition wizard during the pre-season right?
2. When the NA will became the NL in 1876 if I want to keep the NA history separate I just delete the league right?
3. I suppose it will be the same when the AA will became the AL in 1901?

Playoff
1. I don't want the leagues to play against each other before 1901. If I set a mode for each league that won't happen, right?

Finally I use the draft for the rookie do I need to do something special to have all the team participating?

Thanks

Bluenoser · 05-07-2011, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

After the season when a team cease to exist
1. When exactly I must do it (I suppose the pre-season the following year)?
2. I have to release all the players manually right?

2. When you delete a team, all players are automatically released to the FA pool.

OmahaReynolds · 05-08-2011, 01:31 AM

I'm wondering the same thing. For 1876, when the NL needs to be added, how is it done? I can't figure it out. I think the problem is when you add the league you have to add it as a historical league, which I would think would make duplicates of all the players who had debuted from 1871-1875. I'm not sure of this, but I'm trying to figure out how to do it. Also, in between seasons when teams fold and new ones are added, it's really easy for teams to start the season on opening day with too few players on the roster.

So far it's been frustrating

AESP_pres · 05-08-2011, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmahaReynolds

Also, in between seasons when teams fold and new ones are added, it's really easy for teams to start the season on opening day with too few players on the roster.

I use the Gambo database so I think it will be ok for this part, since this one bring more players... One thing is sure I will know somewhere this week. At worst if it's a problem, I'll take the control of some team with too many players and will transfert some to the team in trouble.

OmahaReynolds · 05-08-2011, 02:06 AM

What I've had to do is do like a mock draft for the new teams every year. I'll tranfer one player for each position to each team, since it seemed letting them figure out which free agents to draft on their own was leaving some new clubs without pitchers or with only like 6 players. I'm also using gambo's database. I don't use the amateur draft so I don't know if that would help the situation.

I'd like to hear from someone who has managed to run a historical league with real players, and all the leagues (NA,NL,AA,UA,PL,AL) successfully.

Anyways good luck and please keep us posted on what you learn

BaseballMan · 05-08-2011, 01:26 PM

To advoid duplicates you could make databases of only rookies for that league. I just let the NA become the NL and ZA become AL. I dont have a problem of enough players when i havr thrm going to actual teams. When i dont i count all the players and teams before running free agency bidding. I come up with an avg amount of players for each team. If a team is over i release enough to put them at the llimit. I may also give expansion tezms more money and only let them bid on free agents for the first 5-15 days. Let them draft first.

OmahaReynolds · 05-08-2011, 08:40 PM

Thanks Baseball Man. After trying a few tests that's how I've decided I'm going to do it. Start in 1871 with two subleagues, and just have sub league 1 empty, subleage 2 NA. Turn the NA into the NL and have the AA teams go into subleague 1. I'll miss out on the UA, PL and FL but they really only lasted for a season or two so in the end it doesn't really make that much of a difference.

As far as teams not having enough players, the only problem I had in the tests (and this is with the Gambo database) was the 1872 expansion teams having only 5-10 players by opening day. I just released the players on the other teams' reserve rosters and distributed them to the teams that were short. Every other year it seemed the new teams were able to get enough players. I didn't test to the beginning of the AA, with six new teams it might be hard but I believe there are alot of debuting players in 1882 (or is it 1881?). The cool thing about the amateur draft is that if the new teams are added before hand, they always seem to get the first picks.

BaseballMan · 05-08-2011, 09:06 PM

I believe 1884 is when you will have a lot of rookies because of the UA. I agree that you really dont need those leagues unless your going by real history.
However you might want to keep in mind that you still might want to use the UA teams because without them a player may play a lot less or more for that year if you dont have the same number of teams. Less teams equal less positions available for playing time.

AESP_pres · 05-08-2011, 09:30 PM

I was wondering about something else today...

I checked at baseball reference to get all the correct teams for each years in the National Association. Chicago was there in 1871, disapeared for two seasons (I forgot why) and came back in 1874. If I use the exact abbreviation (CHI), not that I've any other choice or the schedule will not work, in 74 when they came back will the 1871 season will be part of the team history?

mjj55409 · 05-09-2011, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

I was wondering about something else today...

I checked at baseball reference to get all the correct teams for each years in the National Association. Chicago was there in 1871, disapeared for two seasons (I forgot why) and came back in 1874. If I use the exact abbreviation (CHI), not that I've any other choice or the schedule will not work, in 74 when they came back will the 1871 season will be part of the team history?

The Great Chicago Fire of 1871 was the proximate cause of the original Chicago club folding.

If you keep the "Historical Franchise ID" the same, the history should merge.

AESP_pres · 05-09-2011, 01:44 PM

1871 completed and everything seem to have work fine. I did remove and add the teams at the end of november (just before my draft, I know my date is weird). All the teams have enough players and the history is correctly displayed.

Funny thing being that Fort Wayne and Rockford who were the two playoff teams doesn't exist anymore

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjj55409

If you keep the "Historical Franchise ID" the same, the history should merge.

Didn't keep them because I tought it was not important since I do all the move manually... But I will know when I will restart again with OOTP 12

BaseballMan · 05-09-2011, 02:11 PM

You should be able to have the team moves done automatically.

AESP_pres · 05-09-2011, 02:19 PM

But if I let the game do it the team would be all wrong no? Since it would use the file in the database who don't have the good team in the correct year and not the good league

BaseballMan · 05-09-2011, 05:26 PM

Well yes if you just use the database that comes with the game. But if you want the actual teams to change automatically you need to take 2 files from the original lahman database. The teams.csv and team franchise.csv files. You need to change all league abbreviations to AL or NL depending on how you want it to expand.
It will expand automatically but it will have the wrong teams for the 1st year. You have to delete and import the real ones or do it manually. After that it should give you the right teams.

05-07-2011, 06:04 PM	#1 (permalink)
AESP_pres All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Province of Quebec Posts: 812 Blog Entries: 25 Thanks: 937 Thanked 184x in 115 posts	Some clarification needed 19th century It took me a while but finally last night I've understood how to set the 19th century with the real teams, league and schedules. I know some had talked about this, but sometimes I need a picture to get it Anyway now the frame for 1871 is set (the playoff is imaginary I know...) I just need a couple of explanations about the rest (just to be sure I understand right). After the season when a team cease to exist 1. When exactly I must do it (I suppose the pre-season the following year)? 2. I have to release all the players manually right? League creation and demise 1. When the new league start (AA, UA and PL) I just create them in the league addition wizard during the pre-season right? 2. When the NA will became the NL in 1876 if I want to keep the NA history separate I just delete the league right? 3. I suppose it will be the same when the AA will became the AL in 1901? Playoff 1. I don't want the leagues to play against each other before 1901. If I set a mode for each league that won't happen, right? Finally I use the draft for the rookie do I need to do something special to have all the team participating? Thanks

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05-08-2011, 01:31 AM	#3 (permalink)
OmahaReynolds Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 120 Thanks: 6 Thanked 6x in 6 posts	I'm wondering the same thing. For 1876, when the NL needs to be added, how is it done? I can't figure it out. I think the problem is when you add the league you have to add it as a historical league, which I would think would make duplicates of all the players who had debuted from 1871-1875. I'm not sure of this, but I'm trying to figure out how to do it. Also, in between seasons when teams fold and new ones are added, it's really easy for teams to start the season on opening day with too few players on the roster. So far it's been frustrating

05-08-2011, 02:06 AM	#5 (permalink)
OmahaReynolds Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 120 Thanks: 6 Thanked 6x in 6 posts	What I've had to do is do like a mock draft for the new teams every year. I'll tranfer one player for each position to each team, since it seemed letting them figure out which free agents to draft on their own was leaving some new clubs without pitchers or with only like 6 players. I'm also using gambo's database. I don't use the amateur draft so I don't know if that would help the situation. I'd like to hear from someone who has managed to run a historical league with real players, and all the leagues (NA,NL,AA,UA,PL,AL) successfully. Anyways good luck and please keep us posted on what you learn

05-08-2011, 01:26 PM	#6 (permalink)
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,536 Thanks: 8 Thanked 90x in 60 posts	To advoid duplicates you could make databases of only rookies for that league. I just let the NA become the NL and ZA become AL. I dont have a problem of enough players when i havr thrm going to actual teams. When i dont i count all the players and teams before running free agency bidding. I come up with an avg amount of players for each team. If a team is over i release enough to put them at the llimit. I may also give expansion tezms more money and only let them bid on free agents for the first 5-15 days. Let them draft first.

05-08-2011, 08:40 PM	#7 (permalink)
OmahaReynolds Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 120 Thanks: 6 Thanked 6x in 6 posts	Thanks Baseball Man. After trying a few tests that's how I've decided I'm going to do it. Start in 1871 with two subleagues, and just have sub league 1 empty, subleage 2 NA. Turn the NA into the NL and have the AA teams go into subleague 1. I'll miss out on the UA, PL and FL but they really only lasted for a season or two so in the end it doesn't really make that much of a difference. As far as teams not having enough players, the only problem I had in the tests (and this is with the Gambo database) was the 1872 expansion teams having only 5-10 players by opening day. I just released the players on the other teams' reserve rosters and distributed them to the teams that were short. Every other year it seemed the new teams were able to get enough players. I didn't test to the beginning of the AA, with six new teams it might be hard but I believe there are alot of debuting players in 1882 (or is it 1881?). The cool thing about the amateur draft is that if the new teams are added before hand, they always seem to get the first picks.

05-08-2011, 09:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,536 Thanks: 8 Thanked 90x in 60 posts	I believe 1884 is when you will have a lot of rookies because of the UA. I agree that you really dont need those leagues unless your going by real history. However you might want to keep in mind that you still might want to use the UA teams because without them a player may play a lot less or more for that year if you dont have the same number of teams. Less teams equal less positions available for playing time.

05-08-2011, 09:30 PM	#9 (permalink)
AESP_pres All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Province of Quebec Posts: 812 Blog Entries: 25 Thanks: 937 Thanked 184x in 115 posts	I was wondering about something else today... I checked at baseball reference to get all the correct teams for each years in the National Association. Chicago was there in 1871, disapeared for two seasons (I forgot why) and came back in 1874. If I use the exact abbreviation (CHI), not that I've any other choice or the schedule will not work, in 74 when they came back will the 1871 season will be part of the team history?

05-09-2011, 02:11 PM	#12 (permalink)
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,536 Thanks: 8 Thanked 90x in 60 posts	You should be able to have the team moves done automatically.

05-09-2011, 02:19 PM	#13 (permalink)
AESP_pres All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Province of Quebec Posts: 812 Blog Entries: 25 Thanks: 937 Thanked 184x in 115 posts	But if I let the game do it the team would be all wrong no? Since it would use the file in the database who don't have the good team in the correct year and not the good league

05-09-2011, 05:26 PM	#14 (permalink)
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,536 Thanks: 8 Thanked 90x in 60 posts	Well yes if you just use the database that comes with the game. But if you want the actual teams to change automatically you need to take 2 files from the original lahman database. The teams.csv and team franchise.csv files. You need to change all league abbreviations to AL or NL depending on how you want it to expand. It will expand automatically but it will have the wrong teams for the 1st year. You have to delete and import the real ones or do it manually. After that it should give you the right teams.