Just Being... honest

coljesep · 02-13-2012, 11:33 AM

First, I love OOTP. I come from an FPS 98 background, so I appreciate the fine detail that goes into OOTP 12 but I have to be honest... I am sour on OOTP new versions after 12 came out.

I still use it for online leagues, and at this point I like it a lot. But I remember very clearly the nightmare that was OOTP 12 when it 1st came out. There's really no way to sugarcoat it. It wasn't ready, and I'm not sure if that is a shun to developers or to beta testers (which I'd love to be) but I just think so many items were missed.

Every OOTP 12 league I am in, I do not think will even consider jumping to 13 until the final patch is out for 13. That's what OOTP 12 did. It made me and others look at this great pre-order deal and say I'd rather pay $5 extra to avoid a headache.

The worst thing a game can do in my eyes is fall into the Madden hole. Which for sales is a great thing but for users it's not. Madden sells based on name now and not product. They rarely have to make updates because they know people will buy. That stinks. I want a good product, I don't want a game that makes me say "oh well lets just hope ootp 13 is better."
I understand as a business that this is the best way to make $ but for a consumer who has owned OOTP since 6, it gets old.

Will I buy 13? Maybe. But I can guarantee you it won't be until the very final patch is released and after careful review of the boards etc.

I appreciate the work, and hope I don't come off as a sour consumer like so many others do on these boards. I appreciate the work, I just have come to a point where I expect better.

pstrickert · 02-13-2012, 11:49 AM

Define nightmare.

Bluenoser · 02-13-2012, 11:55 AM

What exactly were the problems with 12? and did you log bug reports?

PSUColonel · 02-13-2012, 11:58 AM

I guess we all forget...but the new financial system which was advertised really bombed. I'm not sure exactly what was even done, as Markus just went back to the default settings from 11. But the financial calculator might work, but it if you don't plug in the right numbers,(the MLB default ones) the finances and free agent signings go crazy. When 12 first came out, nobody could figure out what was going on.

joefromchicago · 02-13-2012, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Define nightmare.

Well, it certainly was a nightmare for those of us trying to figure out the world_default.xml file.

markprior22 · 02-13-2012, 01:56 PM

Yep, after playing OOTP since ver 3, I have went about 6 mos without playing since the financials got FUBARed. It sounds cliche but I lost a lot of OOTP love over the past year. I plan to start over with 13 but if financials are too big of a pain over the long term, my OOTP days may be over. Hope to hell that's not the case.

Edit-As PSU mentioned....if financials are working but there are specific numbers that need to be put in the calculator, please let us know that up front. I for one will want to be moving forward with a new league upon release.

BusterKing · 02-13-2012, 04:35 PM

I am really enjoying OOTP12 but we all know that it was rushed out the door and late because of the iOOTP 2011 release.

Now that's out of the way, I think OOTP13 will get more love and will be even better then all previous versions.

ShaneCarson · 02-13-2012, 04:43 PM

Still haven't played OOTP12 because I cannot get my financials to ever come out right.

I pre-ordered 13 in hopes to see something fixed. If not, I'm afraid I'll be going back to 11 and call it a day.

Athletics17 · 02-13-2012, 04:50 PM

Yeah, there were some issues with 12 when it came out and a lot of frustrations that came with it. But I have to give it to the development team for trying new ideas to push this game farther and not settling on the status quo. When you implement something new there will be speed bumps along the way, there will be success and failures. But they did what they could and came out with more patches even after they said they were done with this version. I am sure there will be more attention in those areas for the next few areas. They didn't make financials that way just to screw you. If you are done with this game go find another sim that can come even close to comparing and a development team that puts the effort in the Markus and Co. does. And when you find that game/company tell me about it. Just being....honest.

RchW · 02-13-2012, 05:04 PM

I'm not sure I understand the financial issue. Is it because I converted an existing v11 league to v12?

Everything worked fine on the conversion AFAIK.

markprior22 · 02-13-2012, 05:23 PM

I converted my league and found very good players not getting signed because teams had no money.

oman19 · 02-13-2012, 08:44 PM

I'm not going to lie the mess with the financials in OOTP 12 has made me decide to hold on ordering it till the all-star break discount or till the final patch is out depending on how the reaction to OOTP 13 is on the forums.

I know Marcus & Co. do everything they can with the limited resources they have and truley do put their heart and soulds into this game but after last year I will be cautious.

Hope the launch goes great.

MizzouRah · 02-13-2012, 11:10 PM

Just like any game.. some simple tweaks can go a long way. I had financial issues, but they were easy fixes for the way I play.

This is one game I get more bang for the buck than any other game I purchase on a yearly basis.

Biggio509 · 02-14-2012, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oman19

I'm not going to lie the mess with the financials in OOTP 12 has made me decide to hold on ordering it till the all-star break discount or till the final patch is out depending on how the reaction to OOTP 13 is on the forums.

I know Marcus & Co. do everything they can with the limited resources they have and truley do put their heart and soulds into this game but after last year I will be cautious.

Hope the launch goes great.

I understand your argument and honestly 90% of online leagues don't switch over until the final patch. Too much effort to be part of the gamma testing.

However, I have real hopes this year the problems will be less. I honestly think the problem 12's release was some ambitious features mixed with IOOTP. I think IOOTP took much more resources than expected and really delayed 12. With that out of the way I am hopeful for a less problematic initial release. In many ways 12 was the worst initial release since the entire engine was rewritten and I suspect the entire financial engine was rewritten.

Although hopeful, my expectations are in check. The new features in 13 are ambitious and some of them started late due to MLB changes. I am not expecting a game with no bugs or maybe more properly stated design flaws but with IOOTP out of the way I am hopeful they will be minimal. I hate to look at this way but with all the new features I think the pre-order players may be gamma testers in a sense. I don't mind doing that so I am pre-ordering. I may be wrong but I do some expectation of bugs with all the new features.

Biggio509 · 02-14-2012, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coljesep

The worst thing a game can do in my eyes is fall into the Madden hole. Which for sales is a great thing but for users it's not. Madden sells based on name now and not product. They rarely have to make updates because they know people will buy. That stinks. I want a good product, I don't want a game that makes me say "oh well lets just hope ootp 13 is better."

I think you are way off base making a comparison to Madden. If anything Markus and co. are too ambitious in what they want to do in each version and the small team sometimes makes it hard to pull off. Madden is basically a new set of rosters with some fluff taken away and added each year. There is little ambition on improving the game. OOTP on the other hand is more likely to try to reach to heights games never have reached before and sometimes it takes a couple of versions to actually get it right.

OakDragon · 02-15-2012, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

I'm not sure I understand the financial issue. Is it because I converted an existing v11 league to v12?

Everything worked fine on the conversion AFAIK.

Personally, I think it would be a huge improvement that there was some on-screen explanation of what they mean and where the numbers come from… though I suppose this would entail them being broken up over two or more pages.

RchW · 02-15-2012, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OakDragon

Personally, I think it would be a huge improvement that there was some on-screen explanation of what they mean and where the numbers come from… though I suppose this would entail them being broken up over two or more pages.

Just for the record, my post was not suggesting the financial area was not a problem it just didn't happen to me. That seems to happen a lot and I'm mystified. I don't get FA going unsigned. My salaries don't go into the high $20 million range. I can't dominate as easily as many others appear to, and I get realistic stats.

That's why I asked the question, are those who created leagues in v12 having more problems than those who converted v11 leagues?

soadeathdealer · 02-15-2012, 06:21 PM

just want to point out that iootp 12 is going to be out this yr they are working on it , i saw it in a thread on the 12 boards . i dont think it will hinder ootp13 as much as it did last yr tho so i dont think it will be an issue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggio509

I understand your argument and honestly 90% of online leagues don't switch over until the final patch. Too much effort to be part of the gamma testing.

However, I have real hopes this year the problems will be less. I honestly think the problem 12's release was some ambitious features mixed with IOOTP. I think IOOTP took much more resources than expected and really delayed 12. With that out of the way I am hopeful for a less problematic initial release. In many ways 12 was the worst initial release since the entire engine was rewritten and I suspect the entire financial engine was rewritten.

Although hopeful, my expectations are in check. The new features in 13 are ambitious and some of them started late due to MLB changes. I am not expecting a game with no bugs or maybe more properly stated design flaws but with IOOTP out of the way I am hopeful they will be minimal. I hate to look at this way but with all the new features I think the pre-order players may be gamma testers in a sense. I don't mind doing that so I am pre-ordering. I may be wrong but I do some expectation of bugs with all the new features.

PSUColonel · 02-15-2012, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Just for the record, my post was not suggesting the financial area was not a problem it just didn't happen to me. That seems to happen a lot and I'm mystified. I don't get FA going unsigned. My salaries don't go into the high $20 million range. I can't dominate as easily as many others appear to, and I get realistic stats.

That's why I asked the question, are those who created leagues in v12 having more problems than those who converted v11 leagues?

My big thing is I would like to be able to not have to use a cash max without financials going completely wacko. i want large and small market teams to be able to act accordingly.

SandMan · 02-15-2012, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Just for the record, my post was not suggesting the financial area was not a problem it just didn't happen to me. That seems to happen a lot and I'm mystified. I don't get FA going unsigned. My salaries don't go into the high $20 million range. I can't dominate as easily as many others appear to, and I get realistic stats.

That's why I asked the question, are those who created leagues in v12 having more problems than those who converted v11 leagues?

I started my league with OOTP12 so I did not have to convert a OOTP11 league over.

I play fictional leagues and I am not having any financial problems with my setup. I use the default settings for everything and have not had any real issues with finances. I can't sign all the players I want and I have to be careful on what I spend in FA because ARB demands really throws the budget off but I don't notice any problems. After 11 seasons my highest paid player was at $24M so not to bad. My stats are pretty realistic and are believable for a fictional league. Overall I find OOTP12 a very realistic and enjoyable game.

02-13-2012, 11:33 AM	#1
coljesep All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: 'Merica Posts: 566	Just Being... honest First, I love OOTP. I come from an FPS 98 background, so I appreciate the fine detail that goes into OOTP 12 but I have to be honest... I am sour on OOTP new versions after 12 came out. I still use it for online leagues, and at this point I like it a lot. But I remember very clearly the nightmare that was OOTP 12 when it 1st came out. There's really no way to sugarcoat it. It wasn't ready, and I'm not sure if that is a shun to developers or to beta testers (which I'd love to be) but I just think so many items were missed. Every OOTP 12 league I am in, I do not think will even consider jumping to 13 until the final patch is out for 13. That's what OOTP 12 did. It made me and others look at this great pre-order deal and say I'd rather pay $5 extra to avoid a headache. The worst thing a game can do in my eyes is fall into the Madden hole. Which for sales is a great thing but for users it's not. Madden sells based on name now and not product. They rarely have to make updates because they know people will buy. That stinks. I want a good product, I don't want a game that makes me say "oh well lets just hope ootp 13 is better." I understand as a business that this is the best way to make $ but for a consumer who has owned OOTP since 6, it gets old. Will I buy 13? Maybe. But I can guarantee you it won't be until the very final patch is released and after careful review of the boards etc. I appreciate the work, and hope I don't come off as a sour consumer like so many others do on these boards. I appreciate the work, I just have come to a point where I expect better.

02-13-2012, 01:56 PM	#6
markprior22 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: springfield, illinois Posts: 1,225 Blog Entries: 2	Yep, after playing OOTP since ver 3, I have went about 6 mos without playing since the financials got FUBARed. It sounds cliche but I lost a lot of OOTP love over the past year. I plan to start over with 13 but if financials are too big of a pain over the long term, my OOTP days may be over. Hope to hell that's not the case. Edit-As PSU mentioned....if financials are working but there are specific numbers that need to be put in the calculator, please let us know that up front. I for one will want to be moving forward with a new league upon release. Last edited by markprior22; 02-13-2012 at 01:58 PM.

02-13-2012, 04:50 PM	#9
Athletics17 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: jackson Hole, Wy Posts: 1,187	Yeah, there were some issues with 12 when it came out and a lot of frustrations that came with it. But I have to give it to the development team for trying new ideas to push this game farther and not settling on the status quo. When you implement something new there will be speed bumps along the way, there will be success and failures. But they did what they could and came out with more patches even after they said they were done with this version. I am sure there will be more attention in those areas for the next few areas. They didn't make financials that way just to screw you. If you are done with this game go find another sim that can come even close to comparing and a development team that puts the effort in the Markus and Co. does. And when you find that game/company tell me about it. Just being....honest. __________________ Compilation of Uniforms

02-13-2012, 05:04 PM	#10
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The big smoke Posts: 15,628	I'm not sure I understand the financial issue. Is it because I converted an existing v11 league to v12? Everything worked fine on the conversion AFAIK. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

02-13-2012, 08:44 PM	#12
oman19 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Metro Detroit Area Posts: 1,305	I'm not going to lie the mess with the financials in OOTP 12 has made me decide to hold on ordering it till the all-star break discount or till the final patch is out depending on how the reaction to OOTP 13 is on the forums. I know Marcus & Co. do everything they can with the limited resources they have and truley do put their heart and soulds into this game but after last year I will be cautious. Hope the launch goes great. __________________ GENERATION 10: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment. My OOTP wishlist: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-wishlist.html

02-13-2012, 11:49 AM	#2
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,738	Define nightmare.

02-13-2012, 11:55 AM	#3
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 13,680	What exactly were the problems with 12? and did you log bug reports?

02-13-2012, 11:58 AM	#4
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 12,988 Blog Entries: 37	I guess we all forget...but the new financial system which was advertised really bombed. I'm not sure exactly what was even done, as Markus just went back to the default settings from 11. But the financial calculator might work, but it if you don't plug in the right numbers,(the MLB default ones) the finances and free agent signings go crazy. When 12 first came out, nobody could figure out what was going on.

02-13-2012, 04:35 PM	#7
BusterKing Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,369	I am really enjoying OOTP12 but we all know that it was rushed out the door and late because of the iOOTP 2011 release. Now that's out of the way, I think OOTP13 will get more love and will be even better then all previous versions.

02-13-2012, 04:43 PM	#8
ShaneCarson All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 728	Still haven't played OOTP12 because I cannot get my financials to ever come out right. I pre-ordered 13 in hopes to see something fixed. If not, I'm afraid I'll be going back to 11 and call it a day.

02-13-2012, 05:23 PM	#11
markprior22 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: springfield, illinois Posts: 1,225 Blog Entries: 2	I converted my league and found very good players not getting signed because teams had no money.

02-13-2012, 11:10 PM	#13
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Troy, Mo Posts: 6,251	Just like any game.. some simple tweaks can go a long way. I had financial issues, but they were easy fixes for the way I play. This is one game I get more bang for the buck than any other game I purchase on a yearly basis.