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Old 01-30-2013, 03:38 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Stadium Building

When I made the switch from Baseball Mogul to OOTP last year, this was really the only feature I found lacking. Now, admittedly I have no background whatsoever in computer coding or programming, so I don't have any idea how difficult this is to implement, but I believe a number of folks would be pleased at its inclusion.

Mogul handles this by not having a cash maximum and the stadium is paid for all in one lump sum. By many accounts, allowing the AI to have a big chunk of cash like that leads to wonky behavior. My idea, inspired by how stadium building has been handled in some online leagues I'm a part of, is to allow the cost of the stadium be arranged like a contract, just like you would make with a player or a coach. Would a similar negotiation screen be possible? Except, of course, you would have to pay the full cost of construction, but you could customize the costs for each year.

I don't expect this is something the AI can handle right now, but it would make a nice, small addition for us humans if it was simple enough to do.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I love this idea. A little automation for new stadium or even relication would sell at least one new copy to my brother.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I agree
This is about the only area where OOTP falls behind Mogul. I would like to see an all around deeper financial simulation but a good first step would be to allow for stadium funding and building.

Just my personal opinion, but a lot of the things that have been added to OOTP in the last few versions have been to cater to the manager side of things.
I wish the focus for a few versions would shift back to the GM/owner side of things.

But I do realize that Markus has to create the game for a wide audience. How I play the game is just a small slice of the overall user base.

Not to get too far off point though, this is a very good idea and one that would add a lot to the game. But I don't see it making it in for OOTP 14. This would be a major feature to add (to be done correctly) and would probably have to wait until version 15
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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My only problem with suggestion is how does stadium building has anything to do with GMs or Managers? I mean, doesn't it's owner who usually concern with these things?
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nebradska View Post
Mogul handles this by not having a cash maximum and the stadium is paid for all in one lump sum. By many accounts, allowing the AI to have a big chunk of cash like that leads to wonky behavior. My idea, inspired by how stadium building has been handled in some online leagues I'm a part of, is to allow the cost of the stadium be arranged like a contract, just like you would make with a player or a coach. Would a similar negotiation screen be possible? Except, of course, you would have to pay the full cost of construction, but you could customize the costs for each year.
You may want to check out post #28 in in this thread as I describe a similar approach to building a new stadium I would advocate. I think it has a good blend of detail with ease-of-use.

I would not advocate any sort of 'negotiation' however; I don't think it's necessary. Having the user pick the particular 'model' of stadium they want from a list based on its criteria and associated cost is sufficient. The user has to balance the advantages in terms of revenue growth a new park should provide against the carrying costs involved with that particular park 'model'.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwolf2008 View Post
My only problem with suggestion is how does stadium building has anything to do with GMs or Managers? I mean, doesn't it's owner who usually concern with these things?
The user in OOTP can effectively take on the role of owner if they want. Some may wish to be part owner, part GM, and part manager because of the challenges involved with each role. For those focusing on the GM aspect only, the stadium aspect (i.e. upgrading or building) could be delegated to the AI owner so that the user need not concern themselves with it.

Ballparks are an integral part of the economics of the sport, and that certainly could be better reflected in the game.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwolf2008 View Post
My only problem with suggestion is how does stadium building has anything to do with GMs or Managers? I mean, doesn't it's owner who usually concern with these things?
My interpertation of OOTP has always been that you can play it in one of four ways or any combination of the four.

Commissioner (god mode)/owner/GM/Manager

Everyone plays the game differently and again I have my own way of playing and my own biases. But OOTP to me has always been a baseball universe simulator.
Deeping the owner aspects and the business aspects goes towards making a better baseball universe simulator.

Baseball is entertainment and above all a business. Money is the lifeblood of baseball in it's professional form and my personal opinion is that the financial aspect should be deepened and more detailed.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Baby steps I would love it if we could simply get a widget box that displays park factors and characteristics. This is one aspect of immersion that I feel OOTP lacks in big time. When playing fictional, I often have no clue about the park the game is being played in.
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange View Post
You may want to check out post #28 in in this thread as I describe a similar approach to building a new stadium I would advocate. I think it has a good blend of detail with ease-of-use.

I would not advocate any sort of 'negotiation' however; I don't think it's necessary. Having the user pick the particular 'model' of stadium they want from a list based on its criteria and associated cost is sufficient. The user has to balance the advantages in terms of revenue growth a new park should provide against the carrying costs involved with that particular park 'model'.
That is indeed very similar.

Don't misunderstand me: I don't think the cost should be negotiable. I was just talking about using a similar format to how we negotiate with players now to set the payment plan to allow a little more wiggle room for the player.

For example, my team is terrible and I want to build a new stadium. It costs $150 million and I have 5 years to pay it off. I don't expect to compete for the next three years, nor do I expect to have any big player contracts to deal with, so I construct the payment plan as so:

1st year $40mil
2nd year $40mil
3rd year $35mil
4th year $25mil
5th year $10mil

And in that way I can eat a big chunk of the cost early when I don't have anywhere else to put the money anyway, and when the team should be getting good, the stadium isn't eating so much into my ability to be competitive.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:49 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nebradska View Post
I was just talking about using a similar format to how we negotiate with players now to set the payment plan to allow a little more wiggle room for the player.

For example, my team is terrible and I want to build a new stadium. It costs $150 million and I have 5 years to pay it off. I don't expect to compete for the next three years, nor do I expect to have any big player contracts to deal with, so I construct the payment plan as so:

1st year $40mil
2nd year $40mil
3rd year $35mil
4th year $25mil
5th year $10mil

And in that way I can eat a big chunk of the cost early when I don't have anywhere else to put the money anyway, and when the team should be getting good, the stadium isn't eating so much into my ability to be competitive.
I'd be okay if a stadium 'model' had two or three different payment plan options. I hadn't thought of that before, and there is merit to the idea. So the user could choose between a plan that pays more over for a shorter period of time versus a plan that pays less per year but that lasts for a longer period of time, or a plan that's in-between. The user then has to consider which payment plan fits in best with their expectations of club performance (and expected though temporary attendance bump from opening a new park) over the coming seasons.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:28 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Would like to see stadium building included in either this version or a future one, in whatever capacity it may be
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:50 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I have suggested something along your lines as well a few years back. Many stadiums do get financial backing from parking and consessions. Parking money is an obvious part but the concessions is done in part by negotiating terms to allow a vender to come into stadium and sell their product. Even advertizment is negotiated and even the Union contracts also TV/radio deal as well. General Manager does participate with talks. While it true that some owners will micromanage this part while others get help from GM.

As you have stated I think much of the problems is related to programing this into the game.
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I remember the last Gen Madden games had an interesting way of doing it.

You go through some menus and you come up with the new stadium. Then you get a cost figure. You can then go into how to finance it. PSLs (ok not really for baseball), private money and public money.

You can off course ask for massive amounts of public money, it goes to a vote, and if it passes, hurray. If it doesn't, you gotta go through the process again, only this time, there is the option of pitching the proposal to a different city, thus moving your club.

Throw in naming rights into the mix too. As it stands, ball parks are very real streams of revenue, which I do not think are properly simulated in OOTP. But the numbers are gonna be different. Yankee Stadium cost more money than I think is even possible to get in OOTP, so there needs to be something more to the financing.

As I do it now, a club builds a stadium, I will essentially dump all their cash on hand. This will often only cost them 2 or so million. Not a real representation of what it costs to build a major league ball park, but its something.

Plus, I wouldn't mind more attention thrown into tv deals. Teams can throw up some cash and start their own network and lift themselves into the stratosphere as some of these clubs have done. Then we can all be silly stupid with our billion dollar tv deals and have large payrolls and loose tremendous amount of games. Yes, I am looking at you LA.
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:13 PM   #14 (permalink)
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stray memory clicked.... If memory serves me correctly many online leagues does the building of stadiums
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:05 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:02 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Not to sound dumb, but how does the game currently handle stadium development (if at all) with historical leagues?
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:19 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I have suggested something along your lines as well a few years back. Many stadiums do get financial backing from parking and consessions. Parking money is an obvious part but the concessions is done in part by negotiating terms to allow a vender to come into stadium and sell their product.
These are the sorts of things that the game already handles, albeit abstractly. Income from parking and concessions is directly correlated with attendance, so that income stream can be or is already factored into the ticket price. Even if the team contracts those services to a third party for a set price, that price typically is based on attendance. So, for example, if you want to raise the price of parking, just raise the ticket price.

If you're willing to accept that level of abstraction, then the game already handles about 80% of what a team earns and spends every year. About the only major items not covered are things like leases, taxes, interest, wages for off-the-field employees, insurance, legal costs, utilities, and non-sports revenues (like renting out the stadium for concerts). Those items, however, can also be factored into either the income or expenditure sides of the ledger. That may not be satisfactory to some people, who want to negotiate every contract down to the hot dog vendor who makes minimum wage plus tips. When compared with negotiating the contract of the star first baseman who makes $35 million per year, though, I think most people are content with a certain amount of abstraction.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:23 PM   #18 (permalink)
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This is really the one thing left for OOTP to conquer. There's something so unsatisfying about the way you create a new stadium or relocate a team now. Like others have said, it could include aspects from BM and Madden. Paying off a loan over X number of years, using some public financing, getting a naming rights deal that would cover some of the cost. And, along with it, there'd need to be ratings for the quality of the stadium, access, parking, etc. There could also be an option to renovate rather than build a new one entirely.

But, really, ANYTHING would be better than the nothing that we have now. The most basic of forms, where you type in the stadium name and choose the city and make the game figure out the park factors after you put in the dimensions would be immensely appreciated. This is definitely #1 on my wish list for a 14 patch(hopefully) or for 15.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:10 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I think there is a very real demand for "owner" mode, which can be simulated but not fully experienced in OOTP right now. I would love in a future version to be able to select "Manager mode, GM mode, Owner Mode" and have the game options enabled for each kind.

Having said that, the relocation is very boring, you literally just edit the city you are playing in and team name plus stadium info. An interactive Relocate button would be nice, along with stadium building stuff.

financial adjustments can be a huge headache for OOTP because I am sure just added a few things can cause many problems, having said that I think most people are okay with just a couple additions per year but I haven't really seen any since I started buying OOTP a few years ago. Handling stadium building would be a HUGE bonus and alone would be reason for me to purchase OOTP15. But there has to be reasons for a new stadium, like something that causes attendance to drop if a stadium is not renovated as it ages plus attendance bonuses for new stadiums.

I really hope OOTP decides to pursue stadium building finances along with "owner mode" I think it would add a ton to the game and probably attract even more new buyers.
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:08 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I certainly love the idea of being the owner as well. I love the idea of negotiating for a new stadium with the politicians city and state level. Also try to win over the people of the region of said team. I think it be a pretty good idea as well.

Could negotiate how much the owner has to pay if he/she doesnt want to pay all of it. It be fun addition but I wouldnt put it in the top 3 of priorities but might put it in the top 10
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