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OOTP 14 - General Discussions Discuss the new 2013 version of Out of the Park Baseball here!

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Old 01-31-2013, 12:34 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Has ingame bullpen effects been addressed?

Has the necessity to warmup relievers before they enter a game by both human or AI manager been added at least as an option? Will the bullpen activity be threaded into the play-by-play so you know who is warming up for each team? The way the bullpen was handled in OOTP 13 was a game-breaker for me, especially the fact that the AI manager did not have to warm up a relief pitcher before bringing him in the game. I won't play a game that doesn't realistically handle one of the most important day-to-day aspects of major league baseball. If this hasn't been overhauled, I will pass on this version.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:49 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtimey View Post
Has the necessity to warmup relievers before they enter a game by both human or AI manager been added at least as an option? Will the bullpen activity be threaded into the play-by-play so you know who is warming up for each team? The way the bullpen was handled in OOTP 13 was a game-breaker for me, especially the fact that the AI manager did not have to warm up a relief pitcher before bringing him in the game. I won't play a game that doesn't realistically handle one of the most important day-to-day aspects of major league baseball. If this hasn't been overhauled, I will pass on this version.
Will this be the 14th version you've passed on? Warming up pitchers is an available option since v5 (the version I first bought). I realize that is for humans only.

It is perfectly reasonable for me to assume that the AI is warming up pitchers during game play. The best AI programming in the world is still in tough against human fuzzy logic. Considering the natural advantage a human player has, not having to warm up pitchers seems like an acceptable compromise.

It's too bad. You are missing the best sim on the market. Reconsider please.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:46 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtimey View Post
Has the necessity to warmup relievers before they enter a game by both human or AI manager been added at least as an option? Will the bullpen activity be threaded into the play-by-play so you know who is warming up for each team? The way the bullpen was handled in OOTP 13 was a game-breaker for me, especially the fact that the AI manager did not have to warm up a relief pitcher before bringing him in the game. I won't play a game that doesn't realistically handle one of the most important day-to-day aspects of major league baseball. If this hasn't been overhauled, I will pass on this version.

I missed that full feature also, but....


Since it isn't in the game in a fair way I don't use it as a human manager either. Instead I pretend that my pitching coach is on the ball like the AI pitching coach and my selected pitchers are ready to enter the game all warmed up. Like I pretend by reading the pbp text on how the actual play took place by visualizing it in my head. So I can live with it.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
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To not know who is warming in the bullpen for the team you are managing against is not realistic. To have pitchers just appear on the mound in relief is not realistic. Because of this missing interaction of the bullpen activity in the play-by-play, the 7-9th innings of a played or watched game lacks the drama of real MLB. I have played many games and simulations that get this right. I have played OOTP 12 and 13 and this aspect is missed. There is a certain drama when a manager or coach walks to the mound, usually accompanied by a a cutaway (on TV), or a description (on radio), of the activity in the bullpen. Adding to this drama are adjustments that have to be made because of the state of your bullpen. A tired bullpen may force you to use a little-used swingman in the crucial time to bridge the gap to your closer. Or a closer with a couple of days extra rest will warmup to come in the eight for a 6-out save. I've seen these scenarios played out in other sims without having to assume or imagine their occurrences.

The best thing about the OOTP series is that so many people can play it so many ways. You can rewrite history, realign geographically or whatever. But for me, it starts with the game between the lines. True, no game has been perfect, but they have been close enough to give me that game-to-game enjoyment, some for over five seasons played in real-time. I've been playing sims of all sports since I was 10, and now I'm in my fifties. I have always been willing to try new sims, but for me to keep playing, it has to play a decent game of ball.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:58 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oldtimey View Post
I have played many games and simulations that get this right.
Might I ask which ones? I've played just about all of them and I don't know of any that show who the AI manager is warming up.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:26 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Might I ask which ones? I've played just about all of them and I don't know of any that show who the AI manager is warming up.
I second this. In fact, most sim games I played (for example, Mogul), human player don't warm up Relief Pitchers, either
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:51 AM   #7 (permalink)
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The Show does have the CPU warm up pitchers but who they choose makes no sense strategy-wise. They simply pick the best relief pitcher on their staff, they warm them up for as long as they want (without them getting tired) and out they go.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:01 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RchW View Post
Will this be the 14th version you've passed on? Warming up pitchers is an available option since v5 (the version I first bought). I realize that is for humans only.

It is perfectly reasonable for me to assume that the AI is warming up pitchers during game play. The best AI programming in the world is still in tough against human fuzzy logic. Considering the natural advantage a human player has, not having to warm up pitchers seems like an acceptable compromise.

It's too bad. You are missing the best sim on the market. Reconsider please.
This, especially the bold part. I do use the human warmup feature to add challenge to the game. I figure I already have a huge advantage over the AI. Giving this one thing to the AI isn't a big thing and does not give it a huge advantage. It does add another strategy element to the game though that makes me have to think ahead. In the end it makes the game more fun.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:20 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtimey View Post
To not know who is warming in the bullpen for the team you are managing against is not realistic. To have pitchers just appear on the mound in relief is not realistic. Because of this missing interaction of the bullpen activity in the play-by-play, the 7-9th innings of a played or watched game lacks the drama of real MLB. I have played many games and simulations that get this right. I have played OOTP 12 and 13 and this aspect is missed. There is a certain drama when a manager or coach walks to the mound, usually accompanied by a a cutaway (on TV), or a description (on radio), of the activity in the bullpen. Adding to this drama are adjustments that have to be made because of the state of your bullpen. A tired bullpen may force you to use a little-used swingman in the crucial time to bridge the gap to your closer. Or a closer with a couple of days extra rest will warmup to come in the eight for a 6-out save. I've seen these scenarios played out in other sims without having to assume or imagine their occurrences.

The best thing about the OOTP series is that so many people can play it so many ways. You can rewrite history, realign geographically or whatever. But for me, it starts with the game between the lines. True, no game has been perfect, but they have been close enough to give me that game-to-game enjoyment, some for over five seasons played in real-time. I've been playing sims of all sports since I was 10, and now I'm in my fifties. I have always been willing to try new sims, but for me to keep playing, it has to play a decent game of ball.
In my fifties also and been playing since I was 9 when I got my first Strat O Matic game.

Other than a blurb in the pbp all the drama is still there, isn't it? You still have to make due with your rested relief pitchers as does the AI. It will use a tired P if it has to just as you do but will use it's rested pitchers first. The AI does not go to its best RP if he is tired it uses the "little used swingman" you have mentioned when it's bullpen is tired.

We're all different and like different things but I play The Show on occasion and I know I never sit there and think "oh no, Joe Baseball is warming up" though I do agree it does add immersion. With regard to OOTP I don't really see the need to see who the AI might use. If the AI could get it right it would add immersion to see a blurb in the pbp but what would change in the way I manage the game? I already know if the AI only has rhp's out there or if it has a lhp or two available so I'm already planning ahead. It's not like in OOTP if I see a lhp warming up that I send a RHB back in the tunnel to get loose and ready to PH.

In the end it would be a nice feature if it worked well. I simply don't want to trust the AI will get it right in the seventh game of the world series and win a championship because it didn't. I would go so far to say that IF Markus does add this it should be a separate on\off toggle from the human warmup option. In other words if added (unless proven almost flawless) I would leave human warmup on and turn AI warmup off.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:45 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I have played many games and simulations that get this right.

EA Sports MVP series did a good job with the visuals of people warming up in the bullpen, but again, the AI logic as to who they were warming up did not make much sense to me.

I have never used the warmup option in OOTP. Since you don't have to continue the game in PBP until you push the button, when a new pitcher is put on the mound you have plenty of time to research who you want to face him off the bench. Also you can set the 'team info' box to expanded, and that lets you know the available relievers each team has for that game.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:09 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm pretty sure the Hardball series showed opponent's pitchers warming up.

Will have to reinstall some of them and see, one of these days. Or someone else could beat me to it.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:58 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I'm pretty sure the Hardball series showed opponent's pitchers warming up.

Will have to reinstall some of them and see, one of these days. Or someone else could beat me to it.
They do, so does MVP series
but...do they have any logic that who to warm up? Well, if there is one I can't understand it
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I think it should be even more restricting, it doesn't seem to punish you for having a RP "up" for multiple innings.

It should.
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:27 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I wouldn't mind seeing fatigue worked in if you have someone warm up too long.

Occasionally, when my starter looks like he is getting into a jam, I'll warm up a RP, but, when we gets out of it and works an additional clean inning or two, I sometimes forget about the bullpen, as it isn't on the main screen. This leave that RP in the 'pen for multiple innings, without his arm falling off.
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:36 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I thought about this before; the thing is that a bullpen coach/bench coach will usually stop the warm-up if it goes too long. Basically, sit down, get back up, sit down, get back-up. For example, this seemed to happen a lot with the Orioles as their pen matured (while the rotation evolved) and two O’s starters (3 really) were added during the season.

I just assumed that this was happening in the game (sort of a given), so you don’t need to babysit the pen activity once the call is made.

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Old 02-04-2013, 04:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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SSI's Computer Baseball did it, and the AI's choices for who to warm up made sense, more or less.

And that was on an Apple ][+.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:58 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Micro League Baseball...

...for the Commodore 64 did AI warmups and also got them right (although that game didn't track fatigue).

As an aside, I still say that among all of the computer baseball games with any type of basic graphics, Micro League Baseball was the best. I wish that OOTP would at least provide the option for this "level" of graphics.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:27 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I turned off the warmup rule as it was broken in the last version and I never saw where it was addressed...pitches remained cold no matter how long they were in the bullpen...
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:11 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I turned off the warmup rule as it was broken in the last version and I never saw where it was addressed...pitches remained cold no matter how long they were in the bullpen...
Never had that problem in my game.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:27 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Tony Larussa Baseball II had it. and did it right. Loved it. I am trying to remember if Diamond Mind baseball did it too.
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