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OOTP 14 - General Discussions Discuss the new 2013 version of Out of the Park Baseball here!

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Old 02-09-2013, 11:47 AM   #1 (permalink)
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New Features Discussion

Recoded Player Creation Algorithms

As we sought to create more realistic player types and support the new player origin system, we recoded OOTP's complex player creation routines. This ensures more stable long-term simulations and more realistic player careers and stats output.



Me, personally, I generate a few players from time to time and will mass retire young free-agents and replace with generated prospects eligible for next draft so I have had some success with long-term stability. Either way, I am looking forward to this. Also, can't wait for the new graphs that the community comes up with.






New Fielding Ratings Development System

In real life, young players usually start out playing positions that demand a certain grade of athleticism. However, as players mature, they often grow out of these so-called skill positions (such as shortstop, catcher, or center field) and have to shift to the right side of the defensive spectrum. This is now properly modeled in the OOTP player development engine. For example, if you draft that talented 18-year-old 6'3" 175 lb shortstop, you may end up with a below-average 230 lb corner outfielder eventually.


I really like this one. I just hope that its not overdone. Plenty of players remain SS's their whole careers. The big thing that needs to be fixed is too many utility players and the AI playing guys out of position for nothing more than a bat.






Recoded Scouting System
We have recoded the way OOTP evaluates players, both for the OOTP Scouting Agency ("OSA") and your head scout. For example, players with several years of pro experience are now better scouted than in previous versions, and the OSA is more accurate overall, providing a valid second opinion on players. There are also players who are vastly overrated or underrated by almost all scouts, resulting in more late-round surprises.



I think, overall scouting is done fairly well already. The key improvement that I am looking forward to is a meaningful draft in the late rounds.






Better Player Development Tracking

OOTP now properly tracks the development of your players and offers several ways to analyze the data. You receive monthly player development updates from your head scout (or the OSA, if scouts are disabled), who highlights the most important changes, such as when a pitcher in the lower minor leagues learns a new pitch and improves his prospect status.


oooooo. New reports!!! That never hurts. I like this one too







Expanded Real-Time Simulation Experience


[The real-time simulation feature was a big hit in OOTP 13 - all of you loved it! We have listened to your feedback and improved the experience, such as adding an expanded view on a single game that is currently in progress. This new view shows you the most important facts of the selected game, like the current batter-pitcher matchup, past plays, basic box scores, win probability, and so forth.


Awesome news. The real-time simulation thing is great. I was hoping that I could set a speed so that the amount of time that I have to draft/trade/play could be limited by the hours in a day.

Time pressure.

But currently the sim simply stops at the end of the day. I was hoping that it could continue endlessly. Still, I can simply advance day whether I am ready or not so not that big of a deal.







Improved Trading

We improve the trading AI each year, and OOTP 14 is no different. On top of that, we added a screen that keeps track of all the trades in the history of the league, with a detailed look at the involved players' salaries, overall ratings, prospect rankings, and so forth. OOTP 14 also adds a "Not interested in Player X" function that prevents the AI from repeatedly offering a certain player to you.


Love the not interested option. As far as the rest...we shall see.






Miscellaneous Features

On top of these headline features, we are tweaking and improving other areas of the game too, such as:
  • Improved interface
  • Better player evaluation AI
  • Roster AI recoding, resulting in better managing of minor leagues and the 40-man roster
  • Better contract negotiation AI
  • Improved depth charts and pitching staff control, i.e. list your preferred pinch-hitters, pinch-runners and "LOOGY"-Pitcher.
  • New graphical depth chart screen
  • Improved league strategy settings; i.e., define the number of starting pitchers, relief pitchers, and position players carried by the AI teams, split by DH and non-DH sub-leagues.
  • Smarter in-game AI
  • Improved in-game control, including "Pitch to Contact" option and better stealing control in one-pitch mode
  • Much more storylines
  • Improved play-by-play commentary
  • One-click joining of online leagues
  • New playoff series analysis screen
El numero uno---Improved AI player evaluation, specifically, recently drafted prospects and needlessly putting them on the 40.

A very close 2nd is the ability to define how many starters/players on a roster.


The one big thing missing? I agree with the Wolf. Feeders need to produce better starters and weaker relievers. I don't think it should be defined as SP, RP, CL. It should simply be P. The players that are best used as starters will be etc. The teams should define the roles in the minors and usage will dictate the SP/RP/CL role. Overtime with consistent usage--then and only then--should SP/MR/CL replace P. Like learning a fielding position for position players.

What say you?

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Old 02-09-2013, 12:01 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Expanded Real-Time Simulation Experience

[The real-time simulation feature was a big hit in OOTP 13 - all of you loved it! We have listened to your feedback and improved the experience, such as adding an expanded view on a single game that is currently in progress. This new view shows you the most important facts of the selected game, like the current batter-pitcher matchup, past plays, basic box scores, win probability, and so forth.


Awesome news. The real-time simulation thing is great. I was hoping that I could set a speed so that the amount of time that I have to draft/trade/play could be limited by the hours in a day.

Time pressure.

But currently the sim simply stops at the end of the day. I was hoping that it could continue endlessly. Still, I can simply advance day whether I am ready or not so not that big of a deal.


I am with you, however real-time needs to stop so you can perform transactions.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Expanded Real-Time Simulation Experience

[The real-time simulation feature was a big hit in OOTP 13 - all of you loved it! We have listened to your feedback and improved the experience, such as adding an expanded view on a single game that is currently in progress. This new view shows you the most important facts of the selected game, like the current batter-pitcher matchup, past plays, basic box scores, win probability, and so forth.


Awesome news. The real-time simulation thing is great. I was hoping that I could set a speed so that the amount of time that I have to draft/trade/play could be limited by the hours in a day.

Time pressure.

But currently the sim simply stops at the end of the day. I was hoping that it could continue endlessly. Still, I can simply advance day whether I am ready or not so not that big of a deal.


I am with you, however real-time needs to stop so you can perform transactions.

Use the pause button. Kind of like Railroad Tycoon II. You would pause everytime you heard the arrival bell.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:53 PM   #4 (permalink)
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unless somehow there is a way to continue the clock, but you can only perform transactions while no games are being played in any league.

which is between 4am-12 noon usually
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Now that I think about it I think I'd be pretty bent out of shape if I screwed up a promntion/demotion or waived a guy on accident becaue of time pressures.

Maybe just for the draft or something. I'm not really sure what I'm thinking but I would like to see the time just go.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Almost forgot...


The biggest diappointment to me was that there were not improvements to the financial side of things. Things such as concessions, advertising, income statments, balance sheets, utilities, rents/leases/television contracts, agents, etc.

I was definitely hoping for more optional fun things to do in GM mode akin to a tycoon game. I already get the baseball operations side of things and enjoy that too. But really it's getting to be an old hat. I really wanted more challenges and realism from the financial perspective.

Oh well, some of you will be pleased that not much has changed and that all it is is baseball. That's cool too. It's not like I'm not excited by the improvements--I am.

So, I will be buying it for sure.

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Old 02-09-2013, 03:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The entire feature list hasn't been released yet...I do hope financials get some much needed love. We also get some pretty nice updates around mid to late summer.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I like the sound of a lot of these changes. I try not to get my hopes up on the vague one's though. Markus tends to play it safe with these, and not do anything sweeping.

Player creation changes could make the best change in years. A few new pitching PCM's would thrill me....or we could get changes that aren't really noticeable.

Fielding development is a fundamental change to the game, which makes it the most anticipated feature for me.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:01 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Almost forgot...
The biggest diappointment to me was that there were not improvements to the financial side of things. Things such as concessions, advertising, income statments, balance sheets, utilities, rents/leases/television contracts, agents, etc.
In and of themselves, inclusion of these things is not a bad thing. However, if they're ever going to be options in the game, then they have to matter when enabled. If they're just window dressing (like I remember them being back in one of the old Madden games), then there's no point.

And the problem is, I don't know how you make them matter all that much. Unless Markus were to do something like higher spending on concessions increases the rate at which fan interest grows (or slows down its decline if your team stinks).

I just don't know if the time/effort to add those things would be worth the gain in fun factor (in the whole community of OOTP players; I know it would be worth it for those such as yourself).
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I discussed this at length here (as I went on I elaborated and improved upon the first post.) where I discussed at length how these decisions could be meaningful. There are so many possibilities and potential for this baseball simualtion to really become something great.

I don't mean to imply that it is not a great simulation of baseball statistics. It is. I enjoy it immensely. I just know that if the financials were improved so that there were meaningful strategies (give and take) in the operations of the front office that ultimately impacted the payroll and that if different strategies were necessary during the various stages an organization goes through then that would make this game one of the best all-time software programs ever invented.

Marcus has made a gem of a game. He is, oh so, close to a masterpiece that would etch his name in software design history.

Any way, I completely agree. I, too, would not be interested if it was just window dressing. Just like coaching and scouting have impacts--however small--so would proper management of financials have an impact.

Tie it to game score, if necessary.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The biggest diappointment to me was that there were not improvements to the financial side of things.
I suspect not all that much will progress on that front until I sit down and write my comprehensive financial system design proposal document. I've been thinking about the financial aspect for a long time—indeed, I still think about it now. I've done a ton of research. I've got some stuff figured out, others I'm not as sure about. Just recently I was mulling over ideas on how to incorporate the aspect of premium seating (i.e. luxury suites and club seats).

To put everything into a single design proposal would be a beast to do. An absolute beast. There are so many areas connected to the financial aspect that need to be considered and factored into any proposal. The result would practically be a book.

I'm dreading sitting down to do it because I know how much work it'll be to write up properly. It'd probably take months to complete... so don't expect to see anything any time soon. Maybe next year...


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Things such as concessions, advertising, income statments, balance sheets, utilities, rents/leases/television contracts, agents, etc.
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Originally Posted by olivertheorem View Post
In and of themselves, inclusion of these things is not a bad thing. However, if they're ever going to be options in the game, then they have to matter when enabled. If they're just window dressing (like I remember them being back in one of the old Madden games), then there's no point.
Well, yes and no.

One of the fundamental issues is that, in terms of expenses, OOTP really only accounts for one main thing: player salaries. But in real life player salaries are only part of a club's expenses; there are lots of things that must be paid for such as travel, spring training, minor league operations, ballpark operations, advertising, pensions, general & administrative, etc. The result is that if one tries to have realistic levels of revenues in a league, the lack of those many other real-world expenses means clubs in OOTP will tend to rack up cash. So one must use artificially reduced amounts of revenue to compensate for the simpler expense side of things in OOTP.

I think it's better to put in some additional expense items, even if they can't be affected by the user nor exert any influence on operations, simply because it allows expenses to be brought into balance with revenue in terms of realistic figures. Which in turn makes it easier to compare the game's results to real-world data as a check on fidelity.

And with realistic revenue and expense levels, realistic salary totals and amounts should follow since all three are related to one another.

(Here's a fun hypothetical to ponder: what would have happened with player salaries had free agency been enacted in MLB in the 1920s? How high might salaries have gone? Would the same rate of player salary growth seen in real life since free agency began in 1976 been recreated in the 1920s? Or would something else have happened?)
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:12 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I suspect not all that much will progress on that front until I sit down and write my comprehensive financial system design proposal document. I've been thinking about the financial aspect for a long time—indeed, I still think about it now. I've done a ton of research. I've got some stuff figured out, others I'm not as sure about. Just recently I was mulling over ideas on how to incorporate the aspect of premium seating (i.e. luxury suites and club seats).

To put everything into a single design proposal would be a beast to do. An absolute beast. There are so many areas connected to the financial aspect that need to be considered and factored into any proposal. The result would practically be a book.

I'm dreading sitting down to do it because I know how much work it'll be to write up properly. It'd probably take months to complete... so don't expect to see anything any time soon. Maybe next year...


Well, yes and no.

One of the fundamental issues is that, in terms of expenses, OOTP really only accounts for one main thing: player salaries. But in real life player salaries are only part of a club's expenses; there are lots of things that must be paid for such as travel, spring training, minor league operations, ballpark operations, advertising, pensions, general & administrative, etc. The result is that if one tries to have realistic levels of revenues in a league, the lack of those many other real-world expenses means clubs in OOTP will tend to rack up cash. So one must use artificially reduced amounts of revenue to compensate for the simpler expense side of things in OOTP.

I think it's better to put in some additional expense items, even if they can't be affected by the user nor exert any influence on operations, simply because it allows expenses to be brought into balance with revenue in terms of realistic figures. Which in turn makes it easier to compare the game's results to real-world data as a check on fidelity.

And with realistic revenue and expense levels, realistic salary totals and amounts should follow since all three are related to one another.

(Here's a fun hypothetical to ponder: what would have happened with player salaries had free agency been enacted in MLB in the 1920s? How high might salaries have gone? Would the same rate of player salary growth seen in real life since free agency began in 1976 been recreated in the 1920s? Or would something else have happened?)
Is there any way most of these ideas can be incorporated into blocks of options? For instance, for a league like mine that uses only player salaries, no coaching system (or scouts for that matter, though we do have ratings on), and no media contracts, could there be an option that would only activate a salary cap and nothing else? Call it the 'salary cap mode'.

Then another option that would allow media contracts and ticket prices to be incorporated into the financials along with the salary cap? Call that the 'revenue generator mode'.

Then yet another option that would enable a GM to expand a stadium with premium seating, skyboxes, promotion nights, etc., along with all the rest? Call that the 'full GM mode'.

I imagine it would be easier to code those things in this manner rather than letting us choose which options can be turned on or off, one at a time or all at once.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:39 AM   #13 (permalink)
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All my comments should be prefaced with the remark that they are all my own personal opinion of how the ideal financial model would work within OOTP. I think I can make a good case for my positions, but as always YMMV.

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Is there any way most of these ideas can be incorporated into blocks of options? For instance, for a league like mine that uses only player salaries, no coaching system (or scouts for that matter, though we do have ratings on), and no media contracts, could there be an option that would only activate a salary cap and nothing else? Call it the 'salary cap mode'.
A league with no media broadcasting contracts is basically similar to MLB prior to the 1930s. It's a league that relies mostly on gate receipts for income, along with some revenue from concessions and other items.

Here's how MLB teams earned revenue in 1929:

Gate receipts¹: 89.6%
Concessions: 5.5%
Other²: 6.9%

¹ Includes home games, visitor's share of away games, and exhibition/spring training games
² Includes park advertising, park rental, and other miscellaneous sources

A financial model that allows for a good fidelity recreation of the earlier years in MLB would cover the sort of league you have set up. The only non-historical item is the salary cap, but that ought to be a separately enabled/disabled item anyway, and an option for any time period.

If you wanted long-term stability in your league, then you'd opt for the steady-state universe financial option. That means that, unless you manually go in and change something, the finances of your league will remain mostly the same over its entire life span. League revenue, expenses, typical player salaries, and average attendance will remain at about the same level throughout. If you think about it, this makes sense. In a league where most of the money is brought it from ticket sales, and the league average attendance and ticket price is basically the same every year, then there is no way at the league-level for revenue to rise (which in turn drives player salaries higher). Individual teams' revenues will fluctuate in accordance with how their on-the-field performance translates into ticket sales, but the league overall will remain within a consistent income range.

If you instead wanted to recreate what's been seen in the real world, that is, a long period of gradual income growth changing into a period of much more dramatic rates of increases, then you'd opt for the inflationary universe model. You'd then select at which year along a smoothed historical income growth curve at which you want your league to begin. If you started with, say, 1910, then you'd have a long period of relatively low revenue growth before things started climbing sharply. If you instead picked 1970, then you'd see more rapid revenue growth almost immediately.

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Then another option that would allow media contracts and ticket prices to be incorporated into the financials along with the salary cap? Call that the 'revenue generator mode'.
To my way of thinking a salary cap is an entirely separate thing, something which could be used in any environment. What a salary cap does is basically boost the profit level of higher-income clubs (since they can't spend it on salaries). It probably helps lower-revenue clubs come closer to breaking even or posting a small profit. It may or may not help competitive balance. (Interesting fact: in terms of the number of different clubs that have made the post-season, over the last fifteen years MLB has done almost as well as the NFL. There is only a small difference.)

In my ideal financial model if you wanted to have every team in the league have the same amount of revenue each year so as to best test the mettle of each GM, then you'd set your league to have nothing but national revenue. Gate receipts and other sources of local income would be set to zero. Since national income by default is divided equally between every team in the league, then every team has the same starting amount of revenue each season. In such an environment success is up to each GM's ability to sign free agents to contracts, conduct trades, and handle amateur draft demands.

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Then yet another option that would enable a GM to expand a stadium with premium seating, skyboxes, promotion nights, etc., along with all the rest? Call that the 'full GM mode'.
You raise a good point about how much should be configurable in terms of how much depth the user should have to deal with. My thought there is that it is better to have one comprehensive financial system that has all the requisite features to be quite realistic, and the user who does not wish to deal with certain aspects can then delegate those aspects to an AI assistant. In this regard it'd be like most 4X strategy games.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:24 PM   #14 (permalink)
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To my way of thinking a salary cap is an entirely separate thing, something which could be used in any environment.
I meant to say INSTEAD of the salary cap there. Having a cap and all the media contracts and revenue sharing together would not give an entirely fair economic system to all teams and would make it too easy to build Yankees-like dynasties within that economic model.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:48 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Graphical Depth Chart

This may have been mentioned before, but i got the idea as i looked upon this new screen. Could it be made possible to have a replacement player ie. pinch runner, pinch hitter inserted into the lineup at a given inning? Examples

- i give a pre set instruction for Player X to hit for my SP in the 6-7th inning.
- i give a pre set instruction for Player X to pinch run for my pitcher or slow runner in a given situation ie. down by 1 run late in the game.

Would be cool; to me if i could set some instructions like these say if i were to sim out an inning, and my pitcher just got shelled; or sim out a game and pre set a strategy to implement a PR or PH for whom and when.

Just my thoughts. Anyone?
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:00 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I suspect not all that much will progress on that front until I sit down and write my comprehensive financial system design proposal document. I've been thinking about the financial aspect for a long time—indeed, I still think about it now. I've done a ton of research. I've got some stuff figured out, others I'm not as sure about. Just recently I was mulling over ideas on how to incorporate the aspect of premium seating (i.e. luxury suites and club seats).

To put everything into a single design proposal would be a beast to do. An absolute beast. There are so many areas connected to the financial aspect that need to be considered and factored into any proposal. The result would practically be a book.

I'm dreading sitting down to do it because I know how much work it'll be to write up properly. It'd probably take months to complete... so don't expect to see anything any time soon. Maybe next year...


Well, yes and no.

One of the fundamental issues is that, in terms of expenses, OOTP really only accounts for one main thing: player salaries. But in real life player salaries are only part of a club's expenses; there are lots of things that must be paid for such as travel, spring training, minor league operations, ballpark operations, advertising, pensions, general & administrative, etc. The result is that if one tries to have realistic levels of revenues in a league, the lack of those many other real-world expenses means clubs in OOTP will tend to rack up cash. So one must use artificially reduced amounts of revenue to compensate for the simpler expense side of things in OOTP.

I think it's better to put in some additional expense items, even if they can't be affected by the user nor exert any influence on operations, simply because it allows expenses to be brought into balance with revenue in terms of realistic figures. Which in turn makes it easier to compare the game's results to real-world data as a check on fidelity.

And with realistic revenue and expense levels, realistic salary totals and amounts should follow since all three are related to one another.

(Here's a fun hypothetical to ponder: what would have happened with player salaries had free agency been enacted in MLB in the 1920s? How high might salaries have gone? Would the same rate of player salary growth seen in real life since free agency began in 1976 been recreated in the 1920s? Or would something else have happened?)

You are one of the most-detailed orientated persons we have around here and if you ever get that proposal off the ground there will be a lot of people who will know who got it rolling. Stuff like that opens doors for people. I look forward to anything that you do.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:46 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I think we need some half-orcs created in OOTP. Maybe make adjustments for when first basemen decide they want to be pitchers. That'd be a great start.
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:24 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
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the last version of FM had something pretty interesting. So you are hired as the Manager of the club. You control everything. Or you can hire a Director of Football and then have that person deal with contracts, transactions. You can hire a Director of Youth Football who is in charge of dealing with youngsters. You can hire a Reserves Manager who runs that side of the club.

If OOTP could at some point have that.....

I am the GM. I hire a field manager, that removes those responsibilites from my to do list. I can hire the minor league staffs. I can hire a minor league dev guy to run the minors for me, things like that. VP or marketing or what have you. So there is a difference from being say, the GM, or I could act like the team President, and be in charge but with people under me. and that would also give me access to things like the stadium and what ever.


Another thing I would love is a re-working of the staff. I think there should be 1st and 3rd base coaches. If nothing more than because that is where guys are who end up being managers, or where ex-managers go after getting fired.

Also, the ability to go to a another club and hire away their staff. With limitations of course. I should be able to go to another club and offer their staff members a promotion, so say, I can hire their 3rd base coach or pitching coach to be my manager, or even their AAA manager to be my big club manager.

Right now I see good personnel that are locked away in the minor leagues because they were hired for an open position and now must serve out their contract, and they dont seem to exhibit proper logic to say...only take the job for a 1 or 2 year contract, and say...refuse to sign an extension so they can seek out a job on the big club.

There needs to be a way for personnel to be able to move up, and I think being able for other teams to hire guys off of other club's, as long as the guy is getting promoted, would be a good thing. Could even be made more restrictive in that I can only hire a guy who works for a minor league club if I am offering him a job on the big club, so I couldnt for example hire a A manager to be my AA manager, only hire him to be my Major League manager. But allow anyone who is not the manager, but works for the big league club to be hired away to be a big league manager.
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5 thanks for this post:
BusterKing (02-13-2013), cephasjames (02-13-2013), Cryomaniac (02-13-2013), ihatenames (02-13-2013), PSUColonel (02-19-2013)
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