Impressive In-Game Occurance - Odd Scoring Decision

[JMDurron]

So, in the 7th inning of a game I am currently playing (stopped to post this because it's both neat and weird), I just had something happen that I don't think is very common. In my lineup against a LHP, both of my speedsters hit back-to-back in the 5th and 6th spots. They are my 2B and SS.

In the 2nd inning, my 2B singled, then my SS walked. They successfully executed a double-steal, then both scored on a single.

In the 4th inning, my 2B doubled, then my SS walked. They successfully executed a double-steal, then both scored on a single.

In the 6th inning, my 2B walked, then my SS walked. They successfully executed a double-steal, with the throw going wild into the OF. The 2B scored on the play, then the SS scored on a sac fly.

In the 7th inning, my 2B singled, then my SS walked. They successfully executed a double-steal, with the throw going wild into the OF. The 2B scored on the play, and the fate of the SS is TBD as of this posting.

Two things here -

1, it's amazing that I've managed 4 double-steals with the same two players in the same game.

2, due to the throwing errors, only the lead runner was granted a steal on the second two attempts. Thus, my 2B has 4 steals, but my SS only has 2. That strikes me as incorrect, it should be a successful steal for the trailing runner with an advance to 3B on the errors.

Reading the MLB rules on the subject is not making this clear to me.

(a) When a runner starts for the next base before the pitcher delivers the ball and the pitch results in what ordinarily is scored a wild pitch or passed ball, the official scorer shall credit the runner with a stolen base and shall not charge the misplay, unless, as a result of the misplay, the stealing runner advances an extra base, or another runner also advances, in which case the official scorer shall score the wild pitch or passed ball as well as the stolen base.

(b) When a runner is attempting to steal, and the catcher, after receiving the pitch, makes a wild throw trying to prevent the stolen base, the official scorer shall credit the runner with a stolen base. The official scorer shall not charge an error unless the wild throw permits the stealing runner to advance one or more extra bases, or permits another runner to advance, in which case the official scorer shall credit the runner with the stolen base and charge one error to the catcher.

Section a makes it seem like the steal should count so long as the attempt occurred before the misplay happened. Section b makes it seem possible for the other runner advancing to not count as a steal, since the section only addresses crediting the runner whose attempt prompted the throw with a steal.

Any other gurus have a thought here? Is this something the game is scoring wrong, or just a counter-intuitive rule that is being applied correctly?

[VanillaGorilla]

It would not affect what the actual scoring should be, but I am curious...did the catcher throw to 3rd base each of the four times?

[Powderguy]

wow mind boggling stuff

[goalieump413]

The MLB rule book makes the clear point that, so long as the runners begin their steal attempt before the pitch, a stolen base attempt has begun, so point a) in the rule book doesn't apply here at all. Second, since the "double steal" attempt occurred 4 times, then there should be NO runner advancing a base simply because of the error, like the trailing runner holding until the C errantly throws to 3B, then takes off, hits 2nd, and for some bizarre reason, keeps chugging for 3rd and making it. That would be a crazy risky play, since being thrown out at 3rd is a cardinal sin in baseball.

IMO, it's a scoring mistake, since the throwing error did not, by itself, allow another runner to advance. Now, if the error was not the catcher's but, say, the 3B's or SS's, then maybe it could be said that the fielding error allowed the trailing runner to advance, instead of an "earned" steal. But that's not what you wrote, so I won't assume that the error was anyone's but the catcher's.

[JMDurron]

Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla

It would not affect what the actual scoring should be, but I am curious...did the catcher throw to 3rd base each of the four times?

Yes, the throw went to 3B every time.

Naturally, the two ended up getting on base back-to-back twice in the next game. The 2B was thrown out at 3B on both double-steal attempts in that one.

[JMDurron]

Originally Posted by goalieump413

The MLB rule book makes the clear point that, so long as the runners begin their steal attempt before the pitch, a stolen base attempt has begun, so point a) in the rule book doesn't apply here at all. Second, since the "double steal" attempt occurred 4 times, then there should be NO runner advancing a base simply because of the error, like the trailing runner holding until the C errantly throws to 3B, then takes off, hits 2nd, and for some bizarre reason, keeps chugging for 3rd and making it. That would be a crazy risky play, since being thrown out at 3rd is a cardinal sin in baseball.

IMO, it's a scoring mistake, since the throwing error did not, by itself, allow another runner to advance. Now, if the error was not the catcher's but, say, the 3B's or SS's, then maybe it could be said that the fielding error allowed the trailing runner to advance, instead of an "earned" steal. But that's not what you wrote, so I won't assume that the error was anyone's but the catcher's.

The throw went to 3B each time. On both errors, the catcher threw the ball into the OF, allowing the 2B to score and the SS to advance to 3B. So, I think it is an OOTP scoring error for the SS to not have received credit for his part of the double steal at 2B, prior to the error occurring.

[VanillaGorilla]

Originally Posted by JMDurron

Yes, the throw went to 3B every time.

Naturally, the two ended up getting on base back-to-back twice in the next game. The 2B was thrown out at 3B on both double-steal attempts in that one.

LOL

This is a scoring error within the program.

On a side note, with the latest patch I was pleased to see ER and RBI scoring corrections listed as parts of the fixes. The previous fixes reduced a LOT of those scoring errors, but there still were some.

I have not been going over logs with a fine tooth comb, but in simply playing my games since Friday's patch, I have not seen any scoring errors.

Did this double steal scoring snafu happen with the latest patch installed?

ADD: I thought I found a scoring as I played in one pitch mode, but when I looked at the log, I found a dropped foul ball for an error that I did not see as I clicked through the inning. It was a tricky piece of scoring that the game may have gotten wrong before, but it nailed it with the new patch.

[JMDurron]

I am playing 14.3 Build 12, I believe that is the latest patch.

[VanillaGorilla]

That's my build, too. It sounds like there is an order of operations discrepancy that is resulting in the scoring error...just a guess. Maybe post sabbatical it can be fixed.

I have been very impressed with how much the ER scoring has improved with the patches over the last several months. Hopefully, this can be remedied easily.

[afcchamp88]

I find it strange that with first and second six times in two games that you did a double steal all six times. Seems boring and unrealistic to me. Almost like human auto play. "Well, first and second means it's time to double steal..."

[JMDurron]

Originally Posted by afcchamp88

I find it strange that with first and second six times in two games that you did a double steal all six times. Seems boring and unrealistic to me. Almost like human auto play. "Well, first and second means it's time to double steal..."

It was my two fastest players on base (2B 86 SPD/84 STE, SS is 75/87), against a catcher with a 40 arm rating. That's a pretty rare combination, so I do try to double-steal when I get those two on 1st and 2nd against a catcher with an arm below 50. It was against the backup catcher in game 1. In game 2, the regular catcher and his 49 arm rating returned, leading to two outs on the basepaths. I only have 3 runners that I bother trying to steal bases with, so it's rare that any 2 of those 3 are on 1st and 2nd at the same time.

There's nothing boring about a normally rare opportunity coming up 6 times in 2 games, at least not to me. It was surprising, then amazing that it worked in game 1, then perplexing in how it was scored.