Bunting

Dyzalot · 04-03-2015, 12:12 AM

Did something change in the coding this year? In past versions I have always set the bunting to "very low" and would still see pitchers bunt every time with less than 2 outs and a runner on 1st, still see guys hitting 2nd in the batting order sac bunt in the first three innings and still saw plenty of attempts to bunt for hits. This version, the first game I watched, the AI had my AL pitcher (interleague game) hit with runners on base and less than two outs three straight plate appearances. Should I put bunting back to "normal" in order to get somewhat accurate results?

Dyzalot · 04-03-2015, 09:54 PM

Nobody has any insight on this? It used to be one of my big pet peeves with the game, how the AI would sac bunt sometimes with the #3 hitter in a game in which it trailed by 2 or 3 runs. Now the AI lets the pitchers hit in sac situations under the same settings.

Anyone · 04-04-2015, 12:00 AM

I've noticed this too and have had to adjust my sac bunt settings up.

I think I've hit the sweet spot where it will bunt with pitchers, but almost exclusively pitchers.

I think they made the sliders more sensitive to work with the "managers with personality" concept, and I think overall it's a good thing, though it does take time to get used to what the new settings have to be.

Dyzalot · 04-04-2015, 12:07 AM

I guess I'll go back to "normal" for now and hope that doesn't mean the AI will have guys like Mike Trout batting third in the lineup and laying down a sac bunt in the 7th in a game where they trail by three runs.

Anyone · 04-04-2015, 01:44 AM

No need to set it in the middle. About two ticks less than normal should work.

Or you could set it really low and use player tactics with your pitchers to raise only their sacrifice bunt likelihood.

Dyzalot · 04-04-2015, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anyone

No need to set it in the middle. About two ticks less than normal should work.

Or you could set it really low and use player tactics with your pitchers to raise only their sacrifice bunt likelihood.

If I need to use tactics for it to work then it won't be correct for all of the teams that the AI controls. I just want a global setting that comes closest to mirroring the frequency of bunting in today's game.

Anyone · 04-04-2015, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

If I need to use tactics for it to work then it won't be correct for all of the teams that the AI controls. I just want a global setting that comes closest to mirroring the frequency of bunting in today's game.

I think the middle (with the "Rarely" bunting in the league settings that is the default for this era) comes closest to bunting in today's game...but a couple notches toward less bunting is more palatable to those who want their team to bunt less than that (not that there's a ton in real life, but outside of the late innings of a one-run or tied game I don't want my non-pitchers to bunt at all).

awick · 04-04-2015, 01:24 PM

I'm playing with league setting for bunting on 'rarely' as in past versions of the game. I'm also playing without the DH. My manager strategy is moderate sabermetric with some personal modifications. That gives me a setting for sacrifice bunts that is 2 clicks below normal.

My expectation (hope) was that this would mean my position players bunt very rarely but my pitchers would still bunt some. I simmed spring training and found my pitchers never bunted. The AI is bunting with other teams' pitchers but my guys don't bunt, so obviously it is my strategy settings. (Further note -- I set my individual strategy for pitchers to bunt a lot, 2-4 clicks beyond normal toward frequently, overriding team strategy settings. That seemed to have no effect.)

I think I can compensate for what I see to get closer to what I want. Just thought I'd toss my experience into this thread as I found it somewhat surprising.

RchW · 04-04-2015, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Nobody has any insight on this? It used to be one of my big pet peeves with the game, how the AI would sac bunt sometimes with the #3 hitter in a game in which it trailed by 2 or 3 runs. Now the AI lets the pitchers hit in sac situations under the same settings.

Never saw the bold in any version of the game I played.

This is why limited observations without context are dangerous territory. You just can't give them so much credibility.

awick · 04-04-2015, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Never saw the bold in any version of the game I played.

This is why limited observations without context are dangerous territory. You just can't give them so much credibility.

I've never seen this either, over many seasons and many thousands of games.

Dyzalot · 04-09-2015, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Never saw the bold in any version of the game I played.

I see this all the time and I hardly ever "play out games". I sim a week at a time and "watch" my team play its first game of every month. I also play out all playoff games as the manager. This happens all the time and I'm still seeing it. Was "watching" a game in the last couple of days and watched the opposing manager's AI attempt a bunt down by two runs in the seventh inning with the player in the #3 spot in the order. In what universe should this ever happen? What manager in the last 40 years would do this? Why is this even a problem for the AI? Why would it even be an option to sac bunt with anyone other than a pitcher when down by multiple runs? This all happens while I have the global bunting set to "very rarely".

The Wolf · 04-10-2015, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Never saw the bold in any version of the game I played.

This is why limited observations without context are dangerous territory. You just can't give them so much credibility.

Never seen it either. Been playing steadily since 6.5.

Dyzalot · 04-10-2015, 01:14 AM

I disagree with the "limited sample size" argument. I am a pro poker player. I am probably more in tune with sample sizes and volume and things of that nature than most on these boards. It doesn't take much of a sample size to see a problem if the problem is something that should happen zero times. It would be like me complaining to you about "sample size" after you saw an online site deal out two aces of spades.

Dyzalot · 04-10-2015, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Never seen it either. Been playing steadily since 6.5.

Please enlighten me as to the setting that gets rid of this.

Barkingturtle · 04-10-2015, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Please enlighten me as to the setting that gets rid of this.

I have never altered any settings in regards to bunting. I have played out at least two-thousand games over the past four versions, and have seen what you describe zero times that I can recall. I am an amateur poker player, at best.

Dyzalot · 04-10-2015, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle

I have never altered any settings in regards to bunting. I have played out at least two-thousand games over the past four versions, and have seen what you describe zero times that I can recall. I am an amateur poker player, at best.

I don't understand then. It isn't like I'm making it up. And its not like it has only happened once or twice. The only setting I ever change with bunting is to the lowest setting possible in an attempt to get rid of the bunting in non bunting situations. In fact as you can see from my OP, I was surprised to see the AI let pitchers hit in standard sac bunt situations which I had never seen before in any of the versions no matter how low a bunting setting. I thought maybe it had been fixed until I see a team sac bunting in the 7th down two runs with a non pitcher...

Dyzalot · 04-13-2015, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Dyzalot View Post

Quote:

I've seen Mike Trout batting third in the lineup attempt a bunt with a guy on first, no outs, down by three runs in the 7th... That's the specific one I can remember. There have been a few other times where guys sac bunted when down by several runs.

Wolf replied

Quote:

Change your strategy settings. If your players are bunting, it's your own fault.

Mike Trout was on the opposing team and I have set bunting to the lowest setting possible.

Lukas Berger · 04-13-2015, 10:27 PM

I'll add my voice as another that's never seen the great hitters bunting when behind, despite hundreds of hours playing and testing.

As for the pitchers not bunting and what changed, Markus spends a great deal of time on the ai each version and he's always tweaking it. So it's likely something did change. It's nothing that 's been documented though.

You'll probably just want to try out each setting and see what you feel best using this version.

The Game · 04-13-2015, 10:55 PM

I have seen the #3 hitter bunt but it is rare as most #3 hitters have a bunt rating of 1.

Dyzalot · 04-13-2015, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Game

I have seen the #3 hitter bunt but it is rare as most #3 hitters have a bunt rating of 1.

Thank Science someone else has seen this. I thought I was going crazy.

04-03-2015, 12:12 AM	#1
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	Bunting Did something change in the coding this year? In past versions I have always set the bunting to "very low" and would still see pitchers bunt every time with less than 2 outs and a runner on 1st, still see guys hitting 2nd in the batting order sac bunt in the first three innings and still saw plenty of attempts to bunt for hits. This version, the first game I watched, the AI had my AL pitcher (interleague game) hit with runners on base and less than two outs three straight plate appearances. Should I put bunting back to "normal" in order to get somewhat accurate results?

04-13-2015, 10:55 PM	#19
The Game Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Inside The Game Posts: 30,807	I have seen the #3 hitter bunt but it is rare as most #3 hitters have a bunt rating of 1. __________________ Go today don't wait for tomorrow It isn't promised, all the time you get borrowed Don't live your life for other people Don't bottle your emotions till they crack and fill a couple just sorrows Take your mind and refocus go get a paper write your goals out Throw your middle fingers to all your haters "Stay Strong"

04-03-2015, 09:54 PM	#2
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	Nobody has any insight on this? It used to be one of my big pet peeves with the game, how the AI would sac bunt sometimes with the #3 hitter in a game in which it trailed by 2 or 3 runs. Now the AI lets the pitchers hit in sac situations under the same settings.

04-04-2015, 12:00 AM	#3
Anyone Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 405	I've noticed this too and have had to adjust my sac bunt settings up. I think I've hit the sweet spot where it will bunt with pitchers, but almost exclusively pitchers. I think they made the sliders more sensitive to work with the "managers with personality" concept, and I think overall it's a good thing, though it does take time to get used to what the new settings have to be.

04-04-2015, 12:07 AM	#4
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	I guess I'll go back to "normal" for now and hope that doesn't mean the AI will have guys like Mike Trout batting third in the lineup and laying down a sac bunt in the 7th in a game where they trail by three runs.

04-04-2015, 01:44 AM	#5
Anyone Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 405	No need to set it in the middle. About two ticks less than normal should work. Or you could set it really low and use player tactics with your pitchers to raise only their sacrifice bunt likelihood.

04-04-2015, 01:24 PM	#8
awick Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Lansing, NY Posts: 313	I'm playing with league setting for bunting on 'rarely' as in past versions of the game. I'm also playing without the DH. My manager strategy is moderate sabermetric with some personal modifications. That gives me a setting for sacrifice bunts that is 2 clicks below normal. My expectation (hope) was that this would mean my position players bunt very rarely but my pitchers would still bunt some. I simmed spring training and found my pitchers never bunted. The AI is bunting with other teams' pitchers but my guys don't bunt, so obviously it is my strategy settings. (Further note -- I set my individual strategy for pitchers to bunt a lot, 2-4 clicks beyond normal toward frequently, overriding team strategy settings. That seemed to have no effect.) I think I can compensate for what I see to get closer to what I want. Just thought I'd toss my experience into this thread as I found it somewhat surprising.

04-10-2015, 01:14 AM	#13
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	I disagree with the "limited sample size" argument. I am a pro poker player. I am probably more in tune with sample sizes and volume and things of that nature than most on these boards. It doesn't take much of a sample size to see a problem if the problem is something that should happen zero times. It would be like me complaining to you about "sample size" after you saw an online site deal out two aces of spades.

04-13-2015, 10:27 PM	#18
Lukas Berger OOTP Developments Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nice, Côte d'Azur, France Posts: 19,906	I'll add my voice as another that's never seen the great hitters bunting when behind, despite hundreds of hours playing and testing. As for the pitchers not bunting and what changed, Markus spends a great deal of time on the ai each version and he's always tweaking it. So it's likely something did change. It's nothing that 's been documented though. You'll probably just want to try out each setting and see what you feel best using this version.