Any way to prevent aging stars from being sent to minors?

[adamj]

I don't post much, but have been playing OOTP since Version 5. I recently saw in a thread where someone wrote that the game has gotten so great, that most complaints are about relatively minor items. This probably fits in that category, but nevertheless bothers me, so I'm wondering if anyone has found a way to prevent aging stars from being sent to the minors.

Quick background: I typically play fictional leagues, and sim for about 50 years to establish a history. I like to look through the history to see the career leaders in key stats, whether there have been dynasties, etc.

After simming a history today, it was interesting to see that the career homerun leader (with 598) was a man named Bill Ferris, who had played his entire career for the Yankees. He even had a vague resemblance to Babe Ruth. They had drafted him in the 7th round, so that was nice to see, that it's not always the first rounders who end up being the best players.

Then I noticed that in his last couple years, he only had a few at bats. At first, I thought he must have gotten injured. Upon taking a closer look, I saw that he actually spent most of three years at the end of his career in the minor leagues. I think I would have rather him just be released. At least then, another team may have signed him and given him a change to tack on a few more HR to that all-time record.

I've tried several different AI eval settings to try to minimize this. I've also tried putting a maximum age of 34 on all the minor league levels. When I did that in another test sim, aging stars still got sent down. But instead of AAA, they went to Rookie level. It seems that the age limit in the Rookie league was being ignored.

Again, this is not a huge issue, but a big part of the immersion for me is going over the fictional history, then taking over a team and seeing my players chase those records. It just doesn't seem right for the league's all-time home run king to spend three years at the end of his career in the minor leagues.

So, just wondering if anyone has found a group of setting that eliminates, or at least minimizes the frequency of this happening.

Thanks for your time.

[NoOne]

i'm pretty sure there is no automated function. you'd have to go into individual player strategy and lock to current league for x number of days.

that's the only way i can think of.

[awick]

Originally Posted by adamj

I've tried several different AI eval settings to try to minimize this. I've also tried putting a maximum age of 34 on all the minor league levels. When I did that in another test sim, aging stars still got sent down. But instead of AAA, they went to Rookie level. It seems that the age limit in the Rookie league was being ignored.

I've noticed this too. The age limit is ignored at the lowest level of the minors. This results in players 30+ falling all the way to rookie ball if they can't stick at AAA, which in my case has no age limit. The only solution I can see is manually intervening periodically to release older players who end up at the rookie level.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by awick

I've noticed this too. The age limit is ignored at the lowest level of the minors. This results in players 30+ falling all the way to rookie ball if they can't stick at AAA, which in my case has no age limit. The only solution I can see is manually intervening periodically to release older players who end up at the rookie level.

I know people are tired of hearing me say this but it has never happened in any of my leagues. What could make this happen? Settings such as having the low minors AI eval set to potential rating should preclude aging vets from getting lower than AAA (eval on current ratings).

Another suspect. Disabling the right to refuse minor league assignments. In my leagues very very few 30+ players will accept a minor league assignment. Especially if they have more than one year left on their contract. The one time I tried it there were 3-5 downside players per team all over the minor leagues. Total disaster.

It happens in historical leagues with minor leagues and reserve rule financials. This is not unrealistic because if you look on Baseball Reference you will see many good players shipped off to Class D leagues in their mid 30's.

Any other set or combination of roster rules that allow you to demote veterans will do this. In the case of the OP, the fact that the Yankees were not forced to release Ferris makes me suspect the above.

There may be other things but less likely to show cause and effect. Can someone check settings please?

[Honorable_Pawn]

I think RchW may be right.

It does sound like "right to refuse" is turned off.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by NoOne

i'm pretty sure there is no automated function. you'd have to go into individual player strategy and lock to current league for x number of days.

that's the only way i can think of.

You can lock any player to a minor league level. That would prevent these players from moving down but it would not help find the root cause.

BTW lock player is a great tool for managing player development.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by RchW

You can lock any player to a minor league level. That would prevent these players from moving down but it would not help find the root cause.

BTW lock player is a great tool for managing player development.

ah, i thought it was just worded "lock to current level" ... i don't use it because i control my minor prom/dem. it says minor league level, but if the guy is in the majors wouldn't it accomplish the same thing? <more rhetorical than curious> either way it's not a viable option for the original question. adamj could at least protect his team with minimum effort from his problem - but league-wide wouldn't be worth it.

i don't see this happen either, but i don't really pay attention enough to be sure i am not missing it due to ignorance. i do tick the 10yr vet rule - even though i never do such a thing so i might untick it now that i have thought about it.

i don't use that potential-minor league lineup setting either due to controlling everything.

(there are ways to control everything with very little effort, if you are willing to not care much about the players who will never make it, while keeping an eye out for the ones with amazing random talent changes. you'll typically have good w/l records, too.)

[RchW]

Originally Posted by NoOne

i don't use that potential-minor league lineup setting either due to controlling everything.

You may have misunderstood my point. Young players are better evaluated on their potential vs current ratings. You could have a no-hoper playing because his current ratings match a prospect with super potential.

It may not matter if you are in control of playing time. I'm not.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by RchW

You may have misunderstood my point. Young players are better evaluated on their potential vs current ratings. You could have a no-hoper playing because his current ratings match a prospect with super potential.

It may not matter if you are in control of playing time. I'm not.

just meant i am unfamiliar with exactly how it works. i see the potential uses.

[jarmenia]

Originally Posted by RchW

Settings such as having the low minors AI eval set to potential rating should preclude aging vets from getting lower than AAA (eval on current ratings).

Where is this setting?

[adamj]

Originally Posted by RchW

I know people are tired of hearing me say this but it has never happened in any of my leagues. What could make this happen? Settings such as having the low minors AI eval set to potential rating should preclude aging vets from getting lower than AAA (eval on current ratings).

Another suspect. Disabling the right to refuse minor league assignments. In my leagues very very few 30+ players will accept a minor league assignment. Especially if they have more than one year left on their contract. The one time I tried it there were 3-5 downside players per team all over the minor leagues. Total disaster.

It happens in historical leagues with minor leagues and reserve rule financials. This is not unrealistic because if you look on Baseball Reference you will see many good players shipped off to Class D leagues in their mid 30's.

Any other set or combination of roster rules that allow you to demote veterans will do this. In the case of the OP, the fact that the Yankees were not forced to release Ferris makes me suspect the above.

There may be other things but less likely to show cause and effect. Can someone check settings please?

Thanks for the suggestions. I just verified that the disable right to refuse minors assignment box is not checked, so that is not it.


This is a fictional league with 20 teams, 10 in each subleague with no divisions. There are five levels of minors, with each club having exactly one team at each level.


Here some other settings in this league:
Overall ratings based on AI evaluation, not pure ratings IS checked.
Overall ratings based on all players, not positions IS checked.
Coaching is on.
Owner goals are on.
Scouting is on, with Normal accuracy, updating only at start & end of season.
Injuries on high, with rating hidden.
Show & use Player Personality Ratings IS checked.
Show & use Player Morale System IS checked.
Batter and Pitcher aging and dev settings are all at 1.000
Talent change randomness is at 100
Disable Player Development IS NOT checked.
AI eval settings are ratings 10, 50/30/10 stats.
Lineup selection is set to Traditional.
Active roster is 25 players.
Secondary roster is 40 players.
Expanded roster is 30 players.
Post season roster rules enabled.
Spring training roster size is 60 players.
No roster age minimum or maximums (it was a different league in which I tried using an age limit on all minor league levels.)
Waiver length 3 days.
DFA period 10 days.
Disable list length 15 days.
Enable Option Years IS checked.
Disable right to refuse minor league assignment IS NOT checked.
Allow incomplete minor league rosters IS NOT checked.
Rule 5 Draft is enabled.
10/5 trade veto rule IS checked.
AI trading frequency is Very Low.
Draft is 20 rounds, with players for 21 rounds.
None of the minor league levels have any age limits or roster size limits.
Financials are all modern day defaults:
172 days for one service year.
Minimum service years for free agency is 6 years.
Posting system disabled.
There are no other leagues, so options for FA to enter/leave league are NOT checked.
Draft pick compensation for lost FA's IS checked.
Arbitration at 3 years.
Minimum service years for minor league FA is 6 years.
None of the progression settings on the Options page are checked.
Under fictional player settings, there is no age minimum or maximum.
All PCMs are at 1.000
League totals are the modern day defaults, with all modifiers at 1.000.


Please let me know if I've left out anything that might be relevant. Thanks again for your help!

[adamj]

Was just looking back over my main league from OOTP 15, and see that the issue was not happening in that league. I'm going to convert that league to 16, change no settings, and sim ahead 20 years and see what happens.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by jarmenia

Where is this setting?

See this.

[awick]

Originally Posted by RchW

I know people are tired of hearing me say this but it has never happened in any of my leagues. What could make this happen? Settings such as having the low minors AI eval set to potential rating should preclude aging vets from getting lower than AAA (eval on current ratings).

Another suspect. Disabling the right to refuse minor league assignments. In my leagues very very few 30+ players will accept a minor league assignment. Especially if they have more than one year left on their contract. The one time I tried it there were 3-5 downside players per team all over the minor leagues. Total disaster.

It happens in historical leagues with minor leagues and reserve rule financials. This is not unrealistic because if you look on Baseball Reference you will see many good players shipped off to Class D leagues in their mid 30's.

Any other set or combination of roster rules that allow you to demote veterans will do this. In the case of the OP, the fact that the Yankees were not forced to release Ferris makes me suspect the above.

There may be other things but less likely to show cause and effect. Can someone check settings please?

In my case, it isn't major leaguers who are falling to the rookie leagues. It's career minor leaguers who get dropped from AAA or AA and are too old to be eligible for any lower level. Looks to me like these guys should be getting released instead of demoted.

As for settings:
All my minor leagues are set for the AI to use potential ability.
I have not disabled the right of MLB players to refuse minor league assignments -- and for me that's not what is happening in any case.
I'm playing fictional (currently in 2053) and not using the reserve era rules.
I've set max age as follows: AAA - none, AA - 28, High A - 27, Low A - 26, Short A - 25, Rookie - 24 or 23.

What I'm seeing is players who are around 30 in AAA or at about the max age allowed at some lower level, with very low potential and poor stats, falling to a club's lowest minor league level instead of being released. I have a handful of these guys dropping onto rookie league rosters each week and currently I'm checking every few days, usually releasing the players when I see them. It isn't a really big deal but I'd prefer not to have it.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by awick

In my case, it isn't major leaguers who are falling to the rookie leagues. It's career minor leaguers who get dropped from AAA or AA and are too old to be eligible for any lower level. Looks to me like these guys should be getting released instead of demoted.

As for settings:
All my minor leagues are set for the AI to use potential ability.
I have not disabled the right of MLB players to refuse minor league assignments -- and for me that's not what is happening in any case.
I'm playing fictional (currently in 2053) and not using the reserve era rules.
I've set max age as follows: AAA - none, AA - 28, High A - 27, Low A - 26, Short A - 25, Rookie - 24 or 23.

What I'm seeing is players who are around 30 in AAA or at about the max age allowed at some lower level, with very low potential and poor stats, falling to a club's lowest minor league level instead of being released. I have a handful of these guys dropping onto rookie league rosters each week and currently I'm checking every few days, usually releasing the players when I see them. It isn't a really big deal but I'd prefer not to have it.

May seem like a dumb question but is your AI in control or is it you?

[awick]

I'm playing as the manager of a rookie league club -- so I guess it's the AI that is making all these moves. It's happening to various organizations, not just to mine.

I switch to another manager identity (who is always in commissioner mode) to manage the release or occasional re-assignment of the older players showing up on rookie league rosters.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Do you have minor league free agency on and what is the years to acquire FA? If these players are career minor leaguers and are in their 30 they should not have been resigned

[awick]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

Do you have minor league free agency on and what is the years to acquire FA? If these players are career minor leaguers and are in their 30 they should not have been resigned

I have minor league free agency on, 6 years required for it.

I also have 2 independent leagues -- the Mexican League and a fictional Canadian Baseball League. Free agents move back and forth from MLB, MEX, and the CBL.

[awick]

Here is the kind of player I see occasionally landing in rookie ball. This guy, Frank, was signed by the Pirates as a minor league free agent in 2051 at age 32. He was sent to AAA where he played poorly for a month or so, then he was demoted to a rookie league. He is too old to be assigned to any other level but the game seems to permit assignment to an organization's lowest level despite any age limit.

At the end of the season, this guy became a free agent. He was subsequently signed to play in the Mexican League where he is now.

The AI seems to want to retain players like this and not release them and the game is allowing assignment only to the rookie level in reaction to maximum age settings.

[SirMichaelJordan]

When it comes to releasing minor leaguers the AI only seem to cut poor prospects (usually the fodder in the late rounds) around draft time.

I suspect the guy in question is not actually playing in the rookie but just stored there until his contract is up. Best way to fix this is to not have rookie league roster size to unlimited.

I too rather have AI cut older career minor leaguers instead of fodder prospects who were just drafted the year before.


Edit- seem that he actually played in the league. I sometimes see players playing a few games in a league where they exceeded the age limit but nothing close to 40+ games.