Trades for Minor League Players

[endgame]

My suspicion is this is more feature request than Tech Support, but I think it bears mention as both:

Trading set on Hard - Neutral Preference. The AI continues to be exclusively Active Roster conscious. Any trade I initiate with only minor leaguers in it is declined, but would be okay if I added one of my premium players on the active roster.

The AI should be able to "know" it has 8 catchers on its AA team and no SS, so that when I offer up a SS candidate for one of its catchers, it doesn't go to its active roster to see what it needs in its starting lineup. I think the league-level evaluation needs some closer examination.

[magnet]

Try popping the trading preference to "Favors Prospects" and see what it does.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by magnet

Try popping the trading preference to "Favors Prospects" and see what it does.

Thanks for the tip, but no difference. The AI is Major League active-roster fixated.

[Nutlaw]

In Hard difficulty, it is fairly difficult to swap any two players of near-equal value. I just ran a few sample trades at both Hard and Average difficulty and you may find Average more to your liking in this instance. You can trade prospects for prospects on Hard difficulty, but you're not likely to get the better end of the bargain.

Other than that, make sure that you factor in current ratings, potential ratings, and especially age when considering trade value. Also, consider that if you are offering the AI a scrub SS equivalent to what might be available on the FA market, the AI has no incentive to trade you one of its players for him.

In your example, did the Double A team have no players who were able to play SS, or no players who were "Set As" SS? Did the entire minor league system have a shortage of shortstops?

If you can provide us with some concrete examples of trades that you believe that the AI should have made, I can log a request, but given the complexity of the trade AI evaluation, we are going to need detailed information about both the players involved and the organizational rosters of each team.

[Waninski]

This has been a problem I have noticed since 2006. It is nearly impossible to work a trade where you're swapping mediocre minor leaguers and nothing more. The only way I've ever been able to move these kinds of players are as throw-ins in a trade including high-talent players. I'm currently trying to acquire a mediocre C prospect for the sake of depth and offered the other team four minor leaguers, including a decent MR prospect, and was still shut down. They want nothing but my best big league talent.

[Nutlaw]

Originally Posted by Waninski

This has been a problem I have noticed since 2006. It is nearly impossible to work a trade where you're swapping mediocre minor leaguers and nothing more. The only way I've ever been able to move these kinds of players are as throw-ins in a trade including high-talent players. I'm currently trying to acquire a mediocre C prospect for the sake of depth and offered the other team four minor leaguers, including a decent MR prospect, and was still shut down. They want nothing but my best big league talent.

This is on hard difficulty or average?

[Waninski]

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

This is on hard difficulty or average?

This is on the Average setting.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by Waninski

This is on the Average setting.

Echo that. I can't find a way to negotiate trades of lower level players. The AI, as I've indicated previously, is active-roster fixated. I've found no combinations Average and Above to allow these kinds of offers any chance of successful negotiation. And of course, I wouldn't want to temporarily change the setting to Easy or less just to make something work that, IMHO, should without doing so.

I'm not saying agreement should be the result. It's the fact that the discussion cannot take place AT ALL without including Active Roster players. That simply doesn't work the way it should, or more rightly, the way I'd prefer it work.

[Nutlaw]

Can either of you post me any specific examples of trades that you feel should be accepted by the AI and that were not?

[Nutlaw]

I've tested this again just now and can make plenty of trades between minor leaguers. I'll note the following things, however: the AI doesn't like trading away younger prospects for older ones who have less time to develop, the AI values SPs highly and MRs lowly, and the AI isn't terribly interested in swapping junk players who are no better than free agents that could be signed for nothing. This all seems appropriate to me.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

I've tested this again just now and can make plenty of trades between minor leaguers. I'll note the following things, however: the AI doesn't like trading away younger prospects for older ones who have less time to develop, the AI values SPs highly and MRs lowly, and the AI isn't terribly interested in swapping junk players who are no better than free agents that could be signed for nothing. This all seems appropriate to me.

And you're accomplishing this using what settings and with what league levels?

[Nutlaw]

Originally Posted by endgame

And you're accomplishing this using what settings and with what league levels?

Average trade difficulty. Triple A through Single A (aside from the Major League).

[endgame]

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

Average trade difficulty. Triple A through Single A (aside from the Major League).

Thanks. I'll check it out again when I'm home later tonight. The other related area I don't want to leave unexplored is the roster's positional base. I still maintain minor league team without a position player should be willing to part with his excess player slots in order to gain a player who does play that position or one closely related.

I won't digress too far with that. In fact, it may deserve its own thread at a later date. Thanks again, Nutlaw. I'll reserve judgment a little longer, but something's different that we're experiencing such different results. In and of itself, that doesn't surprise me. We're all really playing, literally, in our different worlds. I don't expect carbon-copy behaviors.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

Average trade difficulty. Triple A through Single A (aside from the Major League).

Okay. Couple more items. Favor Prospects? And what are your AI player eval percentages?

[Waninski]

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

Can either of you post me any specific examples of trades that you feel should be accepted by the AI and that were not?

Here is the deal that I was speaking of previously in this thread. Rather than simply posting everyone as a 20/20 rating, because that's what they are, I will post their best ratings by category:

I would have traded
1) 24y/o 1B (9 contact, 9 power/7 contact potential, 11 power potential)
2) 21 y/o RF (12 contact, 14 gap, 8 HR/12 contact potential, 15 gap pot., 9 HR pot.)
3) 26 y/o 1B (10 contact, 13 power/11 contact pot., 13 power pot.)
4) 20 y/o MR (15 stuff, 14 control/15 stuff pot., 15 control pot.)

in exchange for

1) 24 y/o C (12 contact, 13 eye/12 contact pot., 13 eye pot.)

I would think at the very least any one of the last 3 players I offered would be enough. The only way I can work this deal without offering one of the top big leaguers they demand, is to include a 21 y/o minor league SP currently rated 26/26.

[Waninski]

I should clarify that the game does ask for minor leaguers, but only my biggest and best prospects, with potential ratings in the 60s. I think the problem may be that every minor leaguer (well, almost every) is rated 20/20 and the game fails to distinguish between one 20/20 and another, even though one may be much better than the other.

[Erithtotl]

I have posted a similar problem, in that the AI, when set on 'hard' won't trade for relievers, even if they are quite good. I offered a 25 year old 4 1/2 star reliever making the minimum to the AI for the worst player on his rookie team and he refused. Hitting 'Make this work now' revealed that I would need to include one of my top 3 active players or top 5 prospects to make the deal work. I even offered to pay the guy's salary (by including 400K in the deal). Still no change.

While hard AI is a nice option, it's not when the AI actively hinders itself from accepting trades where it will be significantly improved for no loss.

[Nutlaw]

Originally Posted by endgame

Okay. Couple more items. Favor Prospects? And what are your AI player eval percentages?

Neutral. 30/50/15/5. Everything default except coaches and scouts off.

[Nutlaw]

Originally Posted by Erithtotl

I have posted a similar problem, in that the AI, when set on 'hard' won't trade for relievers, even if they are quite good. I offered a 25 year old 4 1/2 star reliever making the minimum to the AI for the worst player on his rookie team and he refused. Hitting 'Make this work now' revealed that I would need to include one of my top 3 active players or top 5 prospects to make the deal work. I even offered to pay the guy's salary (by including 400K in the deal). Still no change.

While hard AI is a nice option, it's not when the AI actively hinders itself from accepting trades where it will be significantly improved for no loss.

This is separate issue that you've already posted in another thread. Let's please keep these separate.

[Nutlaw]

Originally Posted by Waninski

Here is the deal that I was speaking of previously in this thread. Rather than simply posting everyone as a 20/20 rating, because that's what they are, I will post their best ratings by category:

I would have traded
1) 24y/o 1B (9 contact, 9 power/7 contact potential, 11 power potential)
2) 21 y/o RF (12 contact, 14 gap, 8 HR/12 contact potential, 15 gap pot., 9 HR pot.)
3) 26 y/o 1B (10 contact, 13 power/11 contact pot., 13 power pot.)
4) 20 y/o MR (15 stuff, 14 control/15 stuff pot., 15 control pot.)

in exchange for

1) 24 y/o C (12 contact, 13 eye/12 contact pot., 13 eye pot.)

I would think at the very least any one of the last 3 players I offered would be enough. The only way I can work this deal without offering one of the top big leaguers they demand, is to include a 21 y/o minor league SP currently rated 26/26.

Those are their best ratings (presumably out of 20)? Are their other ratings junk? Are there FAs available who are just as good? Do they seem to need your junk players for any particular reason? You also seem to be offering them junk players at weak positions for a junk player at a premium position. Corner outfielders, 1B, and MRs are the lowest of the low. What if you offer some middle infielders or SPs with comparable ratings?

Also, do any of you believe that your issues are related to those listed in the following thread?FLAW: Loophole in Trade AI