AI and Pitching Roles

[dankrzyz]

Respect to middle relief! Hooray!

(And thanks for the info on those telling stats...)

[The Wolf]

Middle relief deserves some love.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by endgame

No doubt contract negotiations still take a pitcher's role into consideration, but I have a few related question with regard to the whole "role" subject:

Does the general order of preference for the AI remain, in descending order, SP-CL-MR? Does this version allow for any variation in positional preference, pitching or not?

Does the middle reliever's number of Holds play into his contract evaluation?

What happened to the IRS (Inherited Runs Scored) stat, and more importantly the IRS% stat, which I've always considered the most telling indicator of a good middle reliever? Is it buried as a filter option somewhere? I think it needs a deserved return to the front line of MR info and should be a factor in contract negotiations - the latter in some future version perhaps.

deadline bump

[endgame]

Originally Posted by endgame

In addition desiring answers to these questions,
going to bump the bolded early. This was in 6.51 < and strongly believe it needs to be in the go-forward versions, including v2007.

Originally Posted by endgame

No doubt contract negotiations still take a pitcher's role into consideration, but I have a few related question with regard to the whole "role" subject:

Does the general order of preference for the AI remain, in descending order, SP-CL-MR? Does this version allow for any variation in positional preference, pitching or not?

Does the middle reliever's number of Holds play into his contract evaluation?

What happened to the IRS (Inherited Runs Scored) stat, and more importantly the IRS% stat, which I've always considered the most telling indicator of a good middle reliever? (snipped) I think it needs a deserved return to the front line of MR info and should be a factor in contract negotiations - the latter in some future version perhaps.

Haven't revisted this in some time, but what with talk of MR value lately, I think it's important to look at this again. Sorry if it's annoying to anyone to bring up again, but it's one of the pet issues important to me. Besides, I think answers to these questions have some potential to bring about changes in positional value, even in the system as it exists in today's game.

[spark240]

I wish we could just scrap this concept of "starter" and "reliever" (and, God help us, "closer") being different positions. Unfortunately, in this respect OOTP models modern pitcher-use idiocy too well.

[zekester91]

Originally Posted by spark240

I wish we could just scrap this concept of "starter" and "reliever" (and, God help us, "closer") being different positions. Unfortunately, in this respect OOTP models modern pitcher-use idiocy too well.

But isn't that just the major league model, I haven't checked out the draft in a few years, but if memory serves, pitchers are just drafted as pitchers (at least that's the way they are listed in the paper and on websites) and then they are put into whatever role that is open, unless they show a great gift for being a closer.

[wvbucco]

I agree that endurance as a separate stat has flaws and ideally should be eliminated. . I was also thinking that maybe stuff, movement, and control could be handled like the fielding stats of range, errors, and arm. Now, this is pure stream-of-thought with no mulling-over here so don't jump on me too badly if there are gaping flaws. . I would maybe rename/rethink the basic stats into power, deception, and mechanics (e.g. repeatability). These would underly the real in-game stuff, the pitches themselves. Individual pitches would be treated in a way analogous to how defensive positions are treated. Once you learned a new pitch you'd start out with a lower number and slowly get better as you use the pitch. Your intelligence and work ethic would affect how quickly you improve and your starting value and upper limit would be based on your power, mechanics, and deception. With this system starters could use more pitches and relievers fewer. If a guy comes in to a game in a relief role he could get a bonus to his fast ball velocity. This could get pretty complicated if you wanted it to. Guys with high deception would maybe be your side-winders and submariners. . Well, like I said, I just threw this out there off the top of my head.

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by endgame

In addition desiring answers to these questions,
going to bump the bolded early. This was in 6.51 < and strongly believe it needs to be in the go-forward versions, including v2007.

BIG bump. If it's tracked in box scores, it should be tracked overall. Weak.

GET IT IN THERE!

[spark240]

Originally Posted by zekester91

But isn't that just the major league model, I haven't checked out the draft in a few years, but if memory serves, pitchers are just drafted as pitchers (at least that's the way they are listed in the paper and on websites) and then they are put into whatever role that is open, unless they show a great gift for being a closer.

Of course they'll be listed simply as pitchers, but I'm talking about how they're treated and deployed. The OOTP use of SP/MR/CL is basically a codification of what is only the current habit of most MLB managements, not an intrinsic fact about how the game works.

I don't believe there is such a thing as a "great gift for being a closer."