Shop player function question

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

well, maybe so, but it's what most will do in the interest of time rather than actually trying to hammer out a deal. and what happens when the AI starts undervaluing certain players that human teams don't? (which usually always happens)

not to sound too snarky, but what would be your ideal trading engine?

[PSUColonel]

The one I described earlier in the thread that would be similar to the way CM handles player transfers

[lynchjm24]

He wants it to work in only the way that he wants it to work.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

He wants it to work in only the way that he wants it to work.

no, I just want to see it work the best it can without any potential for exploitation of the AI...that's all.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

no, I just want to see it work the best it can without any potential for exploitation of the AI...that's all.

Why do you care if other people exploit the AI? If you don't like the function, it's not like they took out the old model.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Why do you care if other people exploit the AI? If you don't like the function, it's not like they took out the old model.

I am simply concerned that EVERYONE could be able to potentially exploit the AI.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I am simply concerned that EVERYONE could be able to potentially exploit the AI.

Well it seems that if you don't use this feature at all, then you don't have to worry about exploiting the AI. You can exploit the AI in 2006 even with the ridiculously stupid method of waiting days going back and forth - so why is having instant feedback more of an exploit then having to wait 3 days to do it?

My last futile attempt to play 2006, I made no trades except what the AI offered me and you can't even play the game like that and not exploit the AI unless you go out of your way to not take advantage.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Well it seems that if you don't use this feature at all, then you don't have to worry about exploiting the AI. You can exploit the AI in 2006 even with the ridiculously stupid method of waiting days going back and forth - so why is having instant feedback more of an exploit then having to wait 3 days to do it?

My last futile attempt to play 2006, I made no trades except what the AI offered me and you can't even play the game like that and not exploit the AI unless you go out of your way to not take advantage.

instant feedback is fine, it's the "make trade happen" thing that has me worried.

[PotatoPeeler]

How about you wait and just try it to see what you think of it? If you don't like it, then you don't have to use it. Seems like a simple solution.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by PotatoPeeler

How about you wait and just try it to see what you think of it? If you don't like it, then you don't have to use it. Seems like a simple solution.

That solution is so logical that it's unarguable, but as near as I can tell from reading this thread, he wants to make sure that the rest of us can't ever do it.

[rasnell]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

instant feedback is fine, it's the "make trade happen" thing that has me worried.

I believe the new trading setup is immensely improved and offers whatever style of play any of you want.

First of all, it is so simple to begin any form of trading. You can right-click on the name of a player anywhere in the game, a news link, a leaderboard, anywhere, and initiate all kinds of actions such as putting him on the trade block, shopping him instantly for a deal, even offering a contract extension.

Let's start with "shop player." You will get instant feedback with a list of players that teams would deal one for one.

If you have trade difficulty set at normal, you'll get a lot of offers and have the potential of exploiting or getting the upper hand on the AI. However, if you are an experienced OOTP player, you may want to use my typical settings: Put trade difficulty at hard and for the AI to favor young prospects.

If you are trying to dump an aging veteran with high salary, you may not get any proposals on the "shop player" instant feedback list. What offers you do get will take you immediately to the standard trade screen with the deal ready to go instantly if you want. However, I guarantee you, you will not want to make that deal. Instead, it now has everything ready for you to start offering more: a second player, money, etc. You will need to "negotiate." The AI will have the upper hand and will generally have to get the better end of the deal. You probably will have to dig deep and offer a young prospect, the aging veteran and maybe even some money to cover his salary to really get something meaningful in trade.

But you're not limited to these examples. You can still go team by team, look for players that you want, and try to structure your own deals as usual.

You can also put your player on the trading block and wait, wait, wait for the AI to send you an e-mail offering prospective deals.

Even neater, and one more new function, you can right-click on the name of opposing players, perhaps on the list of top prospects, and ask to "Trade for Player."

"What will make this deal work" is a link that appears in the traditional trade window. The AI will tell you what additional players would seal a deal from your team. It is a very painful list if you have trade difficulty set to hard.

In my personal opinion, OOTP 2007 has the easiest and most-varied trade options of any previous version. And, most importantly, you must think hard before completing a deal against the AI with trade settings at hard and favor young prospects.

If you can't find something to like about these changes, then you will not like OOTP 2007.

[PSUColonel]

OK, that's the best it has been explained to me, and it actually sounds good. One more question...is the AI much more aggressive in terms of claiming free agents and claiming players on waivers? (this is something the AI rarely did before) basically humans could sign or claim whoever they wanted, whenever they wanted.

[battists]

I think the best way of explaining "make this work" is like this:

You're a GM on the phone, and you just HAVE to get this deal done, because you're leaving for vacation to an uncharted island with no cell signal, with your new hot young girlfriend.

So, you're on the phone with Theo Epstein, you've offered him aging slugger Ralph Perkinski, and asked for SP Bill McCleary in return. So far, no dice.

So, you hit the "make this work" button, which is like saying to Theo, "Listen, just tell me what you would need to finalize a deal today," and he says, "Throw in that AAA 3B Billy Werner and we can get the paperwork done in an hour."

That's "make it work." There's nothing inherently exploitable in "make it work." AI exploitation comes primarily from the AI valuing people/picks/cash improperly, and there's a whole team of people focusing on this. That said, it's a huge challenge to find a balance between a "fleeceable" AI and one that won't ever accept any reasonable deal. Either end of the spectrum is frustrating.

[BigCity]

Another way to look at it - and maybe more "usual" is your thrid baseman gets injured and you really don't have anyone to plug in without driving you crazy, so you find a player in the league that fits, and you basically chalk it up the same as an unexpected bill - "just make it work".

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by battists

That said, it's a huge challenge to find a balance between a "fleeceable" AI and one that won't ever accept any reasonable deal. Either end of the spectrum is frustrating.

One of the ideas that I've seen crop up around here that would at least address this somewhat in future versions is having some variability in how different teams' GMs are. Some might be easier to rip off, while others might be extremely reluctant to make deals unless they are getting much more value in return. The main border to realism that OOTP faces isn't how hard or easy it is to complete a trade but the uniformity between teams.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

OK, that's the best it has been explained to me, and it actually sounds good. One more question...is the AI much more aggressive in terms of claiming free agents and claiming players on waivers? (this is something the AI rarely did before) basically humans could sign or claim whoever they wanted, whenever they wanted.

and it only had to be posted twice and three other people tell you the same thing, less in depth, but the same thing.

Like others have said, what does it matter to you if other people fleece the AI on trades. Maybe some peopl elike to suspend reality enough that they are by far the smartest GM in the world, maybe some people like to play in a universe where they hypnotize the other GM when trading. What's it to you?

Personally, I found in 2006 that the trades were pretty fair even on normal. OOTP 6 it was easy to fleece the AI but not 2006.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by zukes

and it only had to be posted twice and three other people tell you the same thing, less in depth, but the same thing.

Like others have said, what does it matter to you if other people fleece the AI on trades. Maybe some peopl elike to suspend reality enough that they are by far the smartest GM in the world, maybe some people like to play in a universe where they hypnotize the other GM when trading. What's it to you?

Personally, I found in 2006 that the trades were pretty fair even on normal. OOTP 6 it was easy to fleece the AI but not 2006.

easy there zukes, I just a had a few concerns. ok buddy?

[chimanbj]

I think I know the answer to this, but is making a player "untouchable" not available in the game?

[battists]

Originally Posted by chimanbj

I think I know the answer to this, but is making a player "untouchable" not available in the game?

No, it is not not available.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

easy there zukes, I just a had a few concerns. ok buddy?

no problem, just seemed like you missed it a few times