Any word on the Manual? - Page 2

Raidergoo · 02-14-2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemp

My only hope/wish is that there is a long and detailed section on PCM's and MLE's!

Amusing on so many levels.

Kemp · 02-14-2007, 03:25 PM

Honestly, I put 2006 away and never played a single season because I couldn't figure out how to create and maintain the kind of league/universe I wanted. And the reason is, I couldn't figure out how MLE's and/or PCM's worked.

I am still amazed that this aspect of the game wasn't explained in more detail as I can't imagine how anyone could run a long-term sim without understanding what these things mean and how they work. If the beta testers hadn't hinted that this would be covered, I wouldn't have even bought 2007.

battists · 02-14-2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemp

Honestly, I put 2006 away and never played a single season because I couldn't figure out how to create and maintain the kind of league/universe I wanted. And the reason is, I couldn't figure out how MLE's and/or PCM's worked.

I am still amazed that this aspect of the game wasn't explained in more detail as I can't imagine how anyone could run a long-term sim without understanding what these things mean and how they work. If the beta testers hadn't hinted that this would be covered, I wouldn't have even bought 2007.

Kemp, what are you trying to accomplish? Maybe understanding that can help us figure out a better way to present the information this time around.

FWIW, 90%+ of users never need to touch these values. Unless you're trying to achieve something very specific, the default settings for these should produce reasonable statistical results in the game.

Faroo6 · 02-14-2007, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagrims

Clutch post, but the discussion on the manual should be automatic. Stick to the topic and stop shifting.

I'm getting geared up for this game, and am amazed by Markus' engineuity.

boooo!

Kemp · 02-14-2007, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Kemp, what are you trying to accomplish? Maybe understanding that can help us figure out a better way to present the information this time around.

FWIW, 90%+ of users never need to touch these values. Unless you're trying to achieve something very specific, the default settings for these should produce reasonable statistical results in the game.

See this thread for the mass confusion:
PCM and MLEs, again

battists · 02-14-2007, 07:08 PM

Well, yeah, I kinda don't have time to read through all of that right now.

Is there a specific post in there where you define what, specifically, YOU are trying to accomplish?

1998 Yankees · 02-14-2007, 07:14 PM

In support of Kemp, any feature that spawned a thread of these proportions was quite problematic, IMHO. See this, it dwarves Kemp's example:

Player Creation Modifiers & Major League Equivalencies

There were plenty of users confused on that thread as well . . .

1998 Yankees · 02-14-2007, 07:20 PM

As far as specific requests, there are probably none at this time. Most everybody has either worked out the details of PCM/MLE's or avoided them altogether (which I do in my fictional world).

Please recall my general request, however, to include in documentation somewhere (manual, guide, in-game help) a description of what these modifiers are for and when to use them and when NOT use them. I'm not trying to make more work for anybody, nor am I suggesting a separate manual on the subject, just general guidelines.

Kemp · 02-14-2007, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Well, yeah, I kinda don't have time to read through all of that right now.

Is there a specific post in there where you define what, specifically, YOU are trying to accomplish?

For me, it was a matter of trying to create feeder leagues for a "Major" league and 2 Independent leagues.

I think most of it will be cleared up for me in 2007 with the inclusion of Feeder leagues. However, as 1998 Yankees mentions, as long as there is a detailed explanation as to what they are and what they do, I'll apply them myself where I think I need them.

For 2007, I THINK my approach is simply going to be to have 1 large feeder league that will affiliate with a "Major" league. I'm assuming any undrafted player (someone who has reached the max age of the feeder league) will become a FA and thus be available for the Independent leagues. In this example, I don't think I'll need to play with MLE's or PCM's at all.

battists · 02-14-2007, 07:40 PM

Alright. Well, I'll do my best (again) to try to corral those beasts. :P

Although, my upcoming root canal is seeming more attractive.

1998 Yankees · 02-14-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Alright. Well, I'll do my best (again) to try to corral those beasts. :P

Although, my upcoming root canal is seeming more attractive.

Steve, you're a good guy. I was just looking at your valiant attempt in the Game Guide. Good effort, but still confusing. Maybe more concrete, and simple, examples of what they do, who would be the people to be using them and why, and who should not be touching them. Thanks, as always.

Curtis · 02-14-2007, 09:34 PM

I've gotta echo 1998Yankees and Kemp; I find this whole topic very confusing and need an explanation of how they work. What I've taken from threads in the 2006 section of the forum is that PCM only affects the 'big bang' players, while MLE affects everyone… IF they're batters. Supposedly MLEs don't affect pitchers at all, while PCMs affect both batters and pitchers.

And how do either of these affect (or relate to) league totals? Are we still admonished to never, ever touch the league totals? If so, how do we manipulate the fielding percentage, stolen bases and so forth?

This is a topic I find MUCH more confusing than financials.

Kemp · 02-14-2007, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Alright. Well, I'll do my best (again) to try to corral those beasts. :P

Although, my upcoming root canal is seeming more attractive.

The thing is, I thought your explanation was clear in the manual. However, the tests that people ran seemed to imply that it was incorrect! See the very last page of that thread I linked to for a brief example of what we were seeing....

PCM and MLEs, again

Honestly, it's been so long since I looked at it that I totally forget what we determined so at this point, I'm just looking ahead to 2007. My primary point to all this is - I hope beyond all hope someone gives us a clue as to how they work because for me, it blew 2006 out of the water.

Tony M · 02-15-2007, 06:16 AM

I don't know if this is something that Steve, Marc and Markus have contemplated, but seeing that the forum site runs using php and I assume a MySQL database behind the scenes could a wiki-style manual be set up? The main text would come from the user manual but would then allow comments/alterations/extras etc from the wider fan base.

battists · 02-15-2007, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsoxford

I don't know if this is something that Steve, Marc and Markus have contemplated, but seeing that the forum site runs using php and I assume a MySQL database behind the scenes could a wiki-style manual be set up? The main text would come from the user manual but would then allow comments/alterations/extras etc from the wider fan base.

We discussed it but decided against it (at this time), mainly because of the potential administrative effort in maintaining the wiki and controlling the quality, if it would be an SI-supported thing.

I suspect (not 100% certain yet), that the entire in-game help will also be made available online upon go-live, so there would be, in effect, 3 resources:

1. in-game help available (duh) in-game
2. PDF Game Guide
3. online version of in-game help

dankrzyz · 02-15-2007, 11:01 AM

There is no better advertisement or "pep rally" for the game's release than the release of the Game Manual. Looking forward to it!

1998 Yankees · 02-15-2007, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dankrzyz

There is no better advertisement or "pep rally" for the game's release than the release of the Game Manual. Looking forward to it!

Yes, but I would imagine that they have to wait until a multitude of details are finalized . . .

Raidergoo · 02-15-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dankrzyz

There is no better advertisement or "pep rally" for the game's release than the release of the Game Manual. Looking forward to it!

Maybe this year there will be.

dankrzyz · 02-15-2007, 11:15 AM

You play with our emotions! Build us up, up, up...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

Maybe this year there will be.

Raidergoo · 02-15-2007, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dankrzyz

You play with our emotions! Build us up, up, up...

I literally fell asleep at my desk last night waiting on some sim results on Gambo's DB. Woke up and it was 1 AM, and OOTP was still plugging away.

02-14-2007, 07:14 PM	#27 (permalink)
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium Posts: 6,134	In support of Kemp, any feature that spawned a thread of these proportions was quite problematic, IMHO. See this, it dwarves Kemp's example: Player Creation Modifiers & Major League Equivalencies There were plenty of users confused on that thread as well . . . __________________ The 1998 Yankees are considered to be among the The Best Major League Baseball Teams Ever From 1902-2005 by Baseball Almanac. They were 68-20 at home that year (including playoffs and World Series) in the original Yankee Stadium (1923-2008), "Where Players Became Legends."

02-14-2007, 07:20 PM	#28 (permalink)
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium Posts: 6,134	As far as specific requests, there are probably none at this time. Most everybody has either worked out the details of PCM/MLE's or avoided them altogether (which I do in my fictional world). Please recall my general request, however, to include in documentation somewhere (manual, guide, in-game help) a description of what these modifiers are for and when to use them and when NOT use them. I'm not trying to make more work for anybody, nor am I suggesting a separate manual on the subject, just general guidelines. __________________ The 1998 Yankees are considered to be among the The Best Major League Baseball Teams Ever From 1902-2005 by Baseball Almanac. They were 68-20 at home that year (including playoffs and World Series) in the original Yankee Stadium (1923-2008), "Where Players Became Legends."

02-15-2007, 11:01 AM	#36 (permalink)
dankrzyz Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 235	There is no better advertisement or "pep rally" for the game's release than the release of the Game Manual. Looking forward to it! __________________ Take Two Baseball League (TTBL) - Mexico City Coyotes team page \| league page \| league forum

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02-14-2007, 03:25 PM	#22 (permalink)
Kemp All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,042	Honestly, I put 2006 away and never played a single season because I couldn't figure out how to create and maintain the kind of league/universe I wanted. And the reason is, I couldn't figure out how MLE's and/or PCM's worked. I am still amazed that this aspect of the game wasn't explained in more detail as I can't imagine how anyone could run a long-term sim without understanding what these things mean and how they work. If the beta testers hadn't hinted that this would be covered, I wouldn't have even bought 2007.

02-14-2007, 07:08 PM	#26 (permalink)
battists Administrator Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 14,255	Well, yeah, I kinda don't have time to read through all of that right now. Is there a specific post in there where you define what, specifically, YOU are trying to accomplish?

02-14-2007, 07:40 PM	#30 (permalink)
battists Administrator Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 14,255	Alright. Well, I'll do my best (again) to try to corral those beasts. :P Although, my upcoming root canal is seeming more attractive.

02-15-2007, 06:16 AM	#34 (permalink)
Tony M Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,528	I don't know if this is something that Steve, Marc and Markus have contemplated, but seeing that the forum site runs using php and I assume a MySQL database behind the scenes could a wiki-style manual be set up? The main text would come from the user manual but would then allow comments/alterations/extras etc from the wider fan base.